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The following editorial contains views that are the opinion of the author and not necessarily the views of Allakhazam.com
Last week Sony Online Entertainment announced Station Cash, which was met with an uproar from the 
community. Station Cash is a new virtual currency program that gives players the option buy in-game items from their virtual wallet. This has been seen by many as a short sighted attempt to put money in their pocket without consideration of tomorrow. I don't know about you, but my letter to Santa didn't say anything about getting screwed by Sony. That's how I feel though. I feel somewhat betrayed by the company that I've always talked about as one that listens to their players. It seems that this is no longer true of Sony Online Entertainment.
This isn't the first time that SOE has pushed the same kind of envelope. The launch of Station Exchange back in July of 2005 was met with the same criticism. So what's different this time around? Everything! First of all, we're not getting the choice this time. With Station Exchange they only implemented it on select servers that players had the option to transfer to. The same was true with the introduction of PvP into EverQuest II. First there was discussion which resulted in the creation of dedicated PvP servers because this was what the fans indicated they wanted. This time around it's being forced on everyone, and it was done that way no discussion, no warning and no choice.
My biggest question is why they decided to ninja implement such an important "enhancement" if they didn't already know it was going to piss people off. It's my opinion that they did know; they just simply didn't care. It seems that a simple compromise, like creating specific Station Cash servers for people to transfer to, would have been held with higher regard in the community. So why didn’t they go that route? That's a question as enigmatic to me as their choice to continue PS3 MMO development.
Now, before I get too far ahead of myself, I want to make it clear that I was fine with Station Exchange. Quite frankly, it was a good idea. It cut out the middle man and replaced it with a secure source to do something most of the player base was doing anyway. I also respect the way they implemented it. We knew in advance what was going on, it wasn't forced down our throats, and there was a purpose for it. Again, this isn't the case with Station Cash and I believe that they've shown a cynical disregard to the player base with this decision.
Some may argue that this form of micro-transactions or 'Micropay' already exists in other MMORPGs. While it's true that the F2P (Free-2-Play) MMOs use micro-transactions instead of the traditional monthly fee -- typically you don't have both. Even though Sony isn't necessarily forcing players to use Station Cash, they're offering items that you can't obtain in game, so they might as well be.
That leads to a concern that I had when I saw what they were selling in EverQuest II. Most of the items available can be played off as fluff, but then there are some, like potions that increase your experience by up to fifty percent for four hours, that are serious play influencers. In my eyes, that creates an opportunity for an advantage, especially with new content. This has to annoy the players that enjoy racing to the max level. Guess you'll just have to buy potions come expansion time if you want to compete.
But is that where the ball stops, or will they take it further? Will they give players the option to buy something as ridiculous as level potions? Will I be able to pre order my level 90 Templar at Gamestop with the next expansion? Who knows? It honestly wouldn't surprise me at this point.
In an interview with Bruce Ferguson, Producer of EverQuest II published last week by TenTonHammer, he went on record saying "We were looking for ways to give people opportunities to enjoy the game a little bit more". Now I can respect that, but it doesn't make much sense to add something niche that doesn't add much value to the game(s) overall. In my mind, the resources that were spent on Station Cash could have been spent on something that actually adds said opportunities, rather than create opportunities to sell players more crap.
Of course all of this is my own opinion. I'm sure there are those out there that are excited about this service and who plan to take advantage of what it has to offer. What do you think? Was this a good move or simply another way to bleed our pockets? We'd love to hear your opinions in our forums.
Andrew "Tamat" Beegle
Editor-in-Chief
Allakhazam.com
Let's define "game-breaking". If only those who have real life money to spend can purchase items which grant them an advantage over those who do not have the money to spend, that makes the playing field unequal, hence game-breaking.
Funny how people attempt to compare Station Cash XP potions that are purchased with real life money with items that anyone can acquire in-game. Station Cash XP potions are not the same as those earned by anyone doing Special Events quests in-game. Station Cash XP potions are not the same as playing in a Hot Zone where anyone can play. Station Cash XP potions are not the same as those obtained by looting a LoN Booster Pack in-game and happening to find a Loot Card with XP potions in it. I am not sure why that concept appears to be so difficult to grasp.
Funnier still are those who assert that that those complaining are "high enders" and point fingers at people who managed to level to 85 in one day. Just as a point of information, people on every single server managed to level to 85 in one day. So what is your point? Or is your point that you couldn't do it so that makes it somehow reprehensible?
Or did you, perhaps, miss the assertions made by Smedley and Grimwell that the XP potions are designed to "give a leg up" to new and/or returning players? Of course that presumes that any one would actually recommend a game to a "friend" that not only requires that they pay for the game as well as the monthly subscription fees but that they will need to spend hundreds of dollars to "join their friends in the latest expansions". I most assuredly would not do something that underhanded to any friend of mine, would you?
Making comparisons between Station Cash and Allakhazam or Magelo is simply ludicrous. Allakhazam and Magelo give information. One can use either Allakhazam or Magelo free of charge. One merely needs to put in a bit more effort to acquire the information if one chooses not to pay for either service. They do NOT provide in-game items for real life money. Mapfiend.net gives in-game maps and is available to anyone, free of charge. Again, I am not sure why that concept is so difficult to grasp nor why one would even make such a comparisons. The old "apples to oranges" argument I suppose is easier than using logic.
The assertion that "In opinion, everyone will use the "free" station cash they received, even if they say they won't, they will, it's human nature to use all available resources." is ridiculous. It asserts that it is "human nature" to lie, cheat and buy your way to the top. That may be true of your nature, but it assuredly isn't true of others. The assertion that "I never expect to see any kind of feasible raid item from Station Cash, in truth, I expect to see nothing more than what has already been implemented into LoN." is not only incredibly naive, it indicates that you have not kept up with the statements made by both Smedley and Grimwell.
As for the rest of your assertions with respect to "milk money" and "diapers, they do not merit a response. I make it a point not to engage in a verbal duel with the so obviously unarmed.
Only, several things wrong with your assertions. Let's start with the one that bothers me most. You write:
"The assertion that "In opinion, everyone will use the "free" station cash they received, even if they say they won't, they will, it's human nature to use all available resources." is ridiculous. It asserts that it is "human nature" to lie, cheat and buy your way to the top."
Perhaps you should define a resource before you start flaming. Lie, cheat, and buy are all actions, not resources. Here let me help you...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource
(just a little information for you ^ is a resource, you clicking on it is an action, you can use that free resource to look up any of those other big words you don't seem to understand)
Secondly,
"Making comparisons between Station Cash and Allakhazam or Magelo is simply ludicrous. Allakhazam and Magelo give information. One can use either Allakhazam or Magelo free of charge. One merely needs to put in a bit more effort to acquire the information if one chooses not to pay for either service."
Making such a comparison is not ludicrous, Magelo and Allas both offer SOME services without charge, however if you want the good stuff... you must pay. It really is that simple. The market place offering "upgraded" xp potions is not so dissimilar. You may quest (at certain times) for lesser XP potions, or you can buy the "upgraded" ones year round, that's a choice.
Finally,
"Of course that presumes that any one would actually recommend a game to a "friend" that not only requires that they pay for the game as well as the monthly subscription fees but that they will need to spend hundreds of dollars to "join their friends in the latest expansions". I most assuredly would not do something that underhanded to any friend of mine, would you?"
All i can say to this is... what in the world are you talking about? Not only does this not pertain to the post at hand, it's totally irrelevant information.
While some of your points may be valid, you really need to work on your logistics skills if you want to try and appear to be working off of logic rather than using the proverbial apples and oranges.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic
Good-Day.
Just my 3 cents worth (inflation)
I think the problem is that SOE was vehemently against this kind of thing and then they turn around. Are they greedy? uhm.. I don't think this game exists just for FUN, it is a money maker and so they will do anything to make more money, without killing the dairy cow....
I was in principle against it, but having said this, looking at messages here I am not so sure anymore. It is not game breaking I understand, so that is good. It gives some unfair advantage, for real money, and maybe that is bad.
However, I am a casual player, try to play three evenings a week for about 3 hours and maybe half a day on the weekend, but even that is not always possible. When there is a new level cap I see a lot of people racing to get to it. I couldn't do that, and I sincerely wonder how they get/make the time for it.
Who are these people who have loads of time on their hand? Maybe retired, unemployed, or very rich so they don't have to work all the time, perhaps no other activities in their lives so this is their only hobby and interest? etc etc. Isn't that in itself an unfair advantage? In effect having XP potions enable the casual player to catch up a bit. But... they also have to have the money.
I myself don't care, I am totally behind anyways... I restarted this summer as a returning player with the special offer to "old" players. I looked at my character, no idea anymore how to play her, so I created a twin, started from scratch and it was very nice to get re-acquainted with Everquest and the new zones. But there are not that many to group with and it will take a long time to level up to max. Doesn't matter, I have fun anyways and pair up with my hubby so it's not that bad.
Am not likely to use the station cash though... With my hubby and I both playing EQ and my son playing WoW, our budget is somewhat limited.
I wonder WHO IS using Station Cash??? That would be a good poll...
Sagittaep
Ontario, Canada (yes it IS cold here now, but HOT in the summer, don't bring skies in the summer!)
Zweezdaa Female Wood Elf Druid 56 - Stromm
Zenduri Female Erudite Necro 52 - Stromm
(please note that the people that agreed with my opinion or stance on station cash are in no way involved in the whiners that seem to be so against this new feature)
.. Flame on!
(please note that the people that agreed with my opinion or stance on station cash are in no way involved in the whiners that seem to be so against this new feature)
.. Flame on!
First, paragraphs are your friend. :)
Let's define "game-breaking". If only those who have real life money to spend can purchase items which grant them an advantage over those who do not have the money to spend, that makes the playing field unequal, hence game-breaking.
Funny how people attempt to compare Station Cash XP potions that are purchased with real life money with items that anyone can acquire in-game. Station Cash XP potions are not the same as those earned by anyone doing Special Events quests in-game. Station Cash XP potions are not the same as playing in a Hot Zone where anyone can play. Station Cash XP potions are not the same as those obtained by looting a LoN Booster Pack in-game and happening to find a Loot Card with XP potions in it. I am not sure why that concept appears to be so difficult to grasp.
Funnier still are those who assert that that those complaining are "high enders" and point fingers at people who managed to level to 85 in one day. Just as a point of information, people on every single server managed to level to 85 in one day. So what is your point? Or is your point that you couldn't do it so that makes it somehow reprehensible?
Or did you, perhaps, miss the assertions made by Smedley and Grimwell that the XP potions are designed to "give a leg up" to new and/or returning players? Of course that presumes that any one would actually recommend a game to a "friend" that not only requires that they pay for the game as well as the monthly subscription fees but that they will need to spend hundreds of dollars to "join their friends in the latest expansions". I most assuredly would not do something that underhanded to any friend of mine, would you?
Making comparisons between Station Cash and Allakhazam or Magelo is simply ludicrous. Allakhazam and Magelo give information. One can use either Allakhazam or Magelo free of charge. One merely needs to put in a bit more effort to acquire the information if one chooses not to pay for either service. They do NOT provide in-game items for real life money. Mapfiend.net gives in-game maps and is available to anyone, free of charge. Again, I am not sure why that concept is so difficult to grasp nor why one would even make such a comparisons. The old "apples to oranges" argument I suppose is easier than using logic.
The assertion that "In opinion, everyone will use the "free" station cash they received, even if they say they won't, they will, it's human nature to use all available resources." is ridiculous. It asserts that it is "human nature" to lie, cheat and buy your way to the top. That may be true of your nature, but it assuredly isn't true of others. The assertion that "I never expect to see any kind of feasible raid item from Station Cash, in truth, I expect to see nothing more than what has already been implemented into LoN." is not only incredibly naive, it indicates that you have not kept up with the statements made by both Smedley and Grimwell.
As for the rest of your assertions with respect to "milk money" and "diapers, they do not merit a response. I make it a point not to engage in a verbal duel with the so obviously unarmed.
If it progresses into selling good in-game loot, or worse, good stuff you can ONLY get with SC, then i will hate it. And then ill probably quit. Big deal.
are just the companys own people that post here to defend there own greedyness and crazyness and show that they are not thinking with the commuity but thinking in a way how to secuce the players into giving the company more profit
It is possible for two intelligent people to look at the exact same evidence and come to different conclusions. Welcome to adulthood.
-Chris
its a game world so make then also game prices like 1 dollar or 50 cent. now it makes me puke that for something what doesnt exist in real live you have to pay 25 dollar,
IMPORTANT NOTE
why could you not do this stuff and let us buy it with game pp or game tribute worth from items? why you got the need to ask real live dollars for game stuff? isnt it enough we pay for our accounts?
why you company dont just say we dont care a fook about you we just want the dollars from you so fast as possible.
it really shows me that its all about the money and not in the player interest or for the players love
this is just greedyness in highest form
its just the greedy company goals become more commercial
and they just do as if we like it without asking anything
the prices are 10000 procent overrated.
if you stuff like this make it then affordable for the kids and not ask 25 dollar for a stupid item which no one really need
this is just another effort to milk the eq cow empty of money
1. Pay some extra money, and you can 2 box. Or more. The person who can only afford to maintain 1 account is at a disadvantage. Anyone up in arms over this? Nooooooo.
2. Pay some extra money, and you can get a paid subscription to Allakhazam or Magelo. Now you can look up trade skill recipes. And find specific armor, weapon, and aug drops. Yeah, that's an advantage too. You gonna make all that information public, Mr. Allakhazam administrator? Didn't think so.
And for disclosure purposes. I don't 2 box, but I do have a subscription to Magelo. Make of that what you will.
-Chris
1. Pay some extra money, and you can 2 box. Or more. The person who can only afford to maintain 1 account is at a disadvantage. Anyone up in arms over this? Nooooooo.
2. Pay some extra money, and you can get a paid subscription to Allakhazam or Magelo. Now you can look up trade skill recipes. And find specific armor, weapon, and aug drops. Yeah, that's an advantage too. You gonna make all that information public, Mr. Allakhazam administrator? Didn't think so.
And for disclosure purposes. I don't 2 box, but I do have a subscription to Magelo. Make of that what you will.
-Chris
----------------------------
1.) Someone who has two or more accounts still has to actually play the game to acquire anything. This is another one of those apples to oranges red-herring arguments.
2.) One need not pay a single penny to use www.eqtraders.com to have access to tradeskill information and recipes.
As for information on specific armor, weapons and aug drops, all of that information is available on any number of web sites, no charge. See below just as an example.
Raspers
http://home.comcast.net/~mathadon/Guides/SoD/VisGear.html
http://home.comcast.net/~mathadon/Guides/
http://home.comcast.net/~mathadon/Guides/Defiant/Ornate_A.html
Samanna's
http://samanna.net/gen.info/effects.shtml
http://www.raidloot.com/
People really need to wake up. This has next to no effect on anyone. If a bar or restaurant starts selling T-shirts, do you get your panties in a wad and stop going there, just because they want to make a little extra money? It'd be pretty stupid if you do.. not to mention childish as Hell.. which is basically the root of everyone's complaint on this subject... childish jealousy.
Stugein wrote:
This isn't the bar selling you a completely different, unrelated product. This is the bar asking you to pay extra if you want a couple more ice cubes in your scotch.
Actually, it's neither. It's a popular restaurant posting an extra menu at the front with prices quoted for being seated before other people with less cash; a sliding scale for what kind of table you want (extra for a nice window view, or away from the kitchen (or karaoke machine) or the drafty back door; for a more attentive waiter or prettier waitress.
While we all know of the guy who'll slip the host a $20 to get a good table to impress his girl, people generally don't fuss since it doesn't happen often and most people don't notice since it's done quietly. But post prices to make it official and encourage more people to do it? That'll get people up in arms.
Sure, you can still eat there and enjoy the meal (unless they actually try to make your experience not as nice to encourage you to pay extra....) but the thought of someone paying specifically to get treated better than you -- and worsening your experience in the process, since you have to wait more and have no chance at the nice tables unless the richer folks don't happen to be there that day -- rankles.
LoN already irks me. Clerics in my raiding guild are feeling forced to play LoN or buy loot cards in order to get mana familiars, just to keep up. I like WoW's loot cards; I don't mind people playing for true fluff and silly toys. Things that affect game play? No. That makes it a rich man's game, rewarding money instead of skill, time, or effort. Many players play this game to get away from the real world; dragging real world money into the game puts quite a few holes into the illusion.
Ive got an example of them just not giving a flying F%*k two days ago my server, the tribunal, had all its zones completely crashed except apparently guild hall, i read in forums. i had chars in all different zones, even tutorial, on mine and 3 of my buddies accounts and couldnt log into one of them. i went to another server... logged in just fine it didnt say my server was down, it let me log to char select it even let me make a new char but hey i couldnt play a dam one of them. i went to the forums, someone had posted something, two hours later there were more posts but not a single pathetic developer to be seen to give any explanation. by this time the server was back up. Not 45 minutes into playing guess what... it happened again. so you see i dont really think they will care if we dont like one thing they implement or if we do. they are in it for the money and dont give a sh*t what you, I or anyone else thinks. they are fishing right now, if they make money from it then i guess majority rules in the player base and it stays, albeit i'll lose a little respect for my peers ingame but still thats all it boils down to... money
Edited, Dec 21st 2008 11:00am by Lonaleb
Do I think this is, or ever will be unbalancing? Not really, and if it does, I don't really care. I play this game for fun, and I get my fun by progressing at my pace on my time when I choose to play. What people refer to as a grind, I find entertaining. I enjoy the challenge of trying to work out my own answers to pulls, quests, events, etc. even when thousands or millions of people have done it before me.
Will I use the 150 free SC point I've been given? Probably. I go through a lot of haste potions, and a bag full of them wouldn't go amiss. When they run out, I'll buy more with the fake online currency I already have, whether it be platinum, radiant crystals, orux, facetum, chronobines, or the next funny money they put in with the next expansion. Will I ever buy more SC points? Not unless they come free with something I would buy anyway for a completely unrelated reason, like the next expansion.
I do not have a problem with other people being the first people to level 85. Or 90. Or 95. It does not upset me that people I don't know killed Kerafyrm in Crystallos before I even knew the zone existed. It does not bother me that if you add up all my AAs between all my toons, you get less than a third of what some of my friends have on a single toon.
Yes, I think it would be a shame to see raid (or current-content raid quality) items show up in /marketplace. Frankly, I think it's a shame /marketplace showed up at all, and real-world cash needs to be donated in order to get this funny money. Other people can drop $100 on 10 experience potions, and it won't affect me at all, aside from a slight shaking of the head, and thinking less of them for it.
I think these two posters are both a little off-base, although Stugein, the second poster was a little closer.
My stand is that this is more in line with the movie theater. You buy your ticket (read: pay your subscription fee) which lets you into the theater. While Popcorn, Soda, Candy, and a plate of Nachos (read: Station Cash) aren't strictly part of the movie, they do make it a hell of a lot more enjoyable for some people, and these items are not available through simply watching the movie. I think paying $15 for two small drinks and a tub of popcorn is retarded, but people line up around the lobby to get them. Even I occasionally do.
Will I buy into this greedy pseudo-currency? No.
Will I get bent out of shape if other people do? No.
Will I take what they hand me essentially for free? Yes.
Will I cancel a subscription to a game I enjoy? Not until another one I like better comes along.
Will elitist A-holes who have a thousand dollars to throw away on experience potions, equipment, etc. beat me to the top? Yes, but they still would even without /marketplace - how much plat does $1000 buy, anyway? /ooc Oferring 2.6Mpp 4 loot rites 2 ur raid!
Chill out, guys. Go enjoy your game. Or don't, it's really a matter of choice.
EDIT: Afterthought
Aren't paying subscribers to Allakhazam doing the same thing? Paying for a service that gives a big advantage, but is otherwise not available in game? GASP! O noz!
Edited, Dec 21st 2008 11:14am by nyteshayd
Ssratha Destroyedtokyo, 80/660AA Iksar Monk - out of date
Jiriki Saonserei, 71/456AA Wood Elf Ranger - out of date
Guild Leader of Coordinated Chaos, Bristlebane server
Member of AfterHours Raid Coalition
Umm, that is exactly what they did.
EQII http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?&topic_id=438336
EQII http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=438353 (Some very interesting backpedaling by Smed)
EQII http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=439035
EQI http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?topic_id=144049
EQI http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?topic_id=143974
EQI http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?topic_id=144357
Something else to keep in mind.
Across industries, fewer than one customer in 20 will complain to senior management about a major problem in the quality of a product, and fewer than one in 50 will complain about smaller problems. Therefore most managers are unaware of the extent of the dissatisfaction with their products. Customers just quietly fade away.
Customer dissatisfaction with quality significantly reduces a company’s sales, but several (in our experience, most) companies ignore the dissatisfaction-associated revenue risks because they don’t know how to estimate their magnitude.
Based strictly on Smedley's own comments and habit of backpedaling and his PhD in "New Speak", as well as comments made by Grimwell (Community Relations Manager), rest assured it will not be very long before you will see the sale of items which cannot, by any stretch of the imagination, be described as mere fluff. That should have been apparent on opening day with the inclusion of XP potions.
Kolath 59 Shaman
Flaur 19 Cleric
Peteweber 53 Enchanter
Marcel 51 Necromancer
Just to save people from reading what you wrote I paraphrased.
So because you spend money you should be able to advance (AA or level) at a faster pace ahead of anyone else that doesn't want to pay in addition to their monthly fee?
Posters of your online toon, using station cash to transfer toons, weapon ornaments, these are fine.
But 2 hour 50% XP bonus potions are the first of the gamebreaking things they are offering. I dont' ever expect to see raid loot or epics or anything like that on there, but someone with disposable income willing to spend it on XP potions, has a leg up on anyone who isn't willing to use the marketplace or their real life funds, and that is UNACCEPTABLE :)
Edited, Dec 19th 2008 7:16pm by Mahlon
Hazardous Incorporated - Froglok Rogue of Innoruk
Cromagnon Ivlan - Ogre Warrior Agnostic
Dartenor Board (Retired) - Dark Elf Wizard Agnostic
Fivefinger Diskount (Retired) - Halfling Rogue of Bristlebane
Quellious Server
I guess I'm just too far away from being an 'uber' player to not be sensitive to the emotional distress of having someone beat me to the next cap. Doesn't damage game play itself in any way that I can perceive!
Fight with Honor and Triumph!
Gealaen Gaiamancer
Leader, <Wayfarers of Veeshan> Unrest Server
Cheapening of the experience of leveling, and giving those who can afford the real life $ tag price, an advantage over others, who pay the same monthly fee.
Rest of the crap, whatever, but for them to think that 2 hour 50% experience bonus potions that last through death aren't game changing, like I said is naive and ignorant.
<Edited: To change from 4 hour to 2 hours on the duration of the experience potions; my bad>
Edited, Dec 19th 2008 7:17pm by Mahlon
Hazardous Incorporated - Froglok Rogue of Innoruk
Cromagnon Ivlan - Ogre Warrior Agnostic
Dartenor Board (Retired) - Dark Elf Wizard Agnostic
Fivefinger Diskount (Retired) - Halfling Rogue of Bristlebane
Quellious Server
This isn't the bar selling you a completely different, unrelated product. This is the bar asking you to pay extra if you want a couple more ice cubes in your scotch.
The problem people have with SC isn't what is being offered now, it's the potential of what may be offered going forward. It begins with harmless "fluff" items to get people amenable to the idea of a pay-for-item service. Then when everyone is nice and complacent and SC is just "part of the game", the heavier gameplay advantage items start trickling in; your damage shields, complete heals, power regen, and yes eventually usable equipment.
<Mediocrity> - http://mediocrity.hoodbridge.com
irc.allakhazam.com:6667 - #eq2
Time to Be Bad - Complete Guide to Betraying Qeynos and Kelethin
People really need to wake up. This has next to no effect on anyone. If a bar or restaurant starts selling T-shirts, do you get your panties in a wad and stop going there, just because they want to make a little extra money? It'd be pretty stupid if you do.. not to mention childish as Hell.. which is basically the root of everyone's complaint on this subject... childish jealousy.
Stugein wrote:
This isn't the bar selling you a completely different, unrelated product. This is the bar asking you to pay extra if you want a couple more ice cubes in your scotch.
Actually, it's neither. It's a popular restaurant posting an extra menu at the front with prices quoted for being seated before other people with less cash; a sliding scale for what kind of table you want (extra for a nice window view, or away from the kitchen (or karaoke machine) or the drafty back door; for a more attentive waiter or prettier waitress.
While we all know of the guy who'll slip the host a $20 to get a good table to impress his girl, people generally don't fuss since it doesn't happen often and most people don't notice since it's done quietly. But post prices to make it official and encourage more people to do it? That'll get people up in arms.
Sure, you can still eat there and enjoy the meal (unless they actually try to make your experience not as nice to encourage you to pay extra....) but the thought of someone paying specifically to get treated better than you -- and worsening your experience in the process, since you have to wait more and have no chance at the nice tables unless the richer folks don't happen to be there that day -- rankles.
Edited, Dec 21st 2008 2:38pm by Quats
It more or less is a completely new and different product, as you put it, since the game ran for nearly a decade without it so it's not a big deal. It's not a very hard concept to understand, we're not talking quantum physics here.
Firstly, when you say its "not something you have to do," you're correct. Alternately, its something people have chosen to do - and enjoyed doing - for years.
In response to your "ran for nearly a decade without it" quote, again, you're correct. EQ has run for nearly a decade "without it." Is it needed?
Personally, I enjoyed using the adventure pots and also enjoy my "lessons" ability. I will not be buying the items as I generally solo or play with an irl friend (but could afford it).
The thing I've noticed most about EQ since coming back (I took a few years off) is that the middle zones and levels are now extremely neglected. Maybe its just nostalgia, but there was something to the grind and the ensuing pleasure of creating a plane-worthy char. Now you simply PL super quick up the hotzone tree so you can camp the GL. Anyways...that's my rant and mini-flame...enjoy!
Crakn Skulz on the Tribunal
You mention the mid levels being neglected so that could be a good reason to use the double exp potions... because face it, exping at the high levels is rediculously stupid, double exp or not.
If you pay for XP potions you have an advantage over those who do not, and even if the rest is fluff, this one item in and of itself does effect the server. It might not be so noticeable now, just wait until the next level raising expansion. Do those people who race to be the first max level not deserve to be in the running without putting out more real life cash than their monthly subscription?
Hazardous Incorporated - Froglok Rogue of Innoruk
Cromagnon Ivlan - Ogre Warrior Agnostic
Dartenor Board (Retired) - Dark Elf Wizard Agnostic
Fivefinger Diskount (Retired) - Halfling Rogue of Bristlebane
Quellious Server
Grow up.
1.) Elixirs were an in-game item obtained through a quest, i.e.: someone took the time and effort to complete the quest and obtained a reward. Comparing an in-game item obtained by actually playing the game to an item which is purchased with real life cash is the old apples to oranges argument.
2.) SoE IS asking players for ideas for additional items (See above for various links) for which they are NOT offering compensation, which they then intend to SELL back to the players. No "Big Tricked out Name Badge" forthcoming.
3.) The assumption that merely because Sony is a business it knows what is going on is incredibly naive. If that true, the U.S. economy, not to mention the stock market and the auto industry, would not be in need of a bailout. ;)
The problem is that the vast majority of consumers do not make their complaints known to companies therefore most managers are unaware of dissatisfaction with a product. Customer dissatisfaction with quality significantly reduces a company’s sales, but several (in our experience, most) companies ignore the dissatisfaction-associated revenue risks because they don’t know how to estimate their magnitude. If you check the above links, you will notice that the cons vastly outweigh the pros in the case of Smedbucks(Station Cash)
Wow, I think I got caught up into a flame on game here which wasn't my intention. All I wanted to say is that I have a problem with everyones assumption that someone who wants to buy pots, even 100% exp pots are "game changers". My original point got lost in a whole of stuff that wasn't intentional. My point was whose game are you talking about? My game is different then your game, your game is different then mine and BOTH of our games are different then Tickpit's (see above). You're using YOUR term of GAME as it is written in stone, it isn't! Look, if everyone has to be on the same playing field then it can only be live certain times of the day, which still hurts people who work or can't be on at that time, we'd all have the same buffs with same buff timers, I couldn't 6 box toons to make my own group, there wouldn't be 6 hour raids (because I can't do that), the invulnerabilty pots I have on my tank ARE GAME changers that I got from LoN, we all get every expansion when they came out for the cost of the subscription (hey, if I can't afford it because of RL stuff, it shouldn't change my game, , I have tons of examples of how you have adavantages over me and I have over you. Game changing is awful generic, if it is a game changer for you, DON'T BUY IT. Wow, case solved.
Edited, Dec 20th 2008 9:11am by FladerTheFound
All of the other issues aside (mercifully) ... I have to thank Sony for stirring up this much of an amusing discussion. I've gotten some good laughs out of it, and after the first day of dealing with the silly emotional responses, it looks like people on both sides are at least behaving rationally. Or close enough.
Incidentally, I like it when gnomes catch on fire. Har! (My gnomish alchemist seems to, often!)
Fight with Honor and Triumph!
Gealaen Gaiamancer
Leader, <Wayfarers of Veeshan> Unrest Server
I'll withhold judgment until such time that this has a negative influence on my playtime at which point I will demand compensation for the mental anguish it has caused (10 or 20 exp potions will do).
Thank you.
Have fun with it if you use it, I will not be.
Didnt SWG have a vocal minority of players?? and look how well that game faired since the "vocal minority" up and left the game.
Pull the other one hun this is crap and if you support it then the games buggered..becuase if you honestly believe they'll leave it at fluff item then you're going to be proved wrong,its what cash shops in f2p mmos do,sell you stuff to get ahead.
Look at the new house pet..if that wasnt destined to be a necro pet than i'm a dutchman..becuase its awfully similar to the new conjy pet (in a necro sort of way) so its started already within a week of going live..(oyu have to love the way they pushed it to the servers too)WTG SOE.
The new year will be the time to tell if this issue is hurting the game..peoples subs will have run out atm its far to early to tell..ask again in jan/feb.
fozziefozzie..part of the vocal minority
Edited, Dec 19th 2008 5:36am by fozziefozzie
First off I could see this coming when the LoN game came out and they were selling packs of cards with a chance to get better loot. Mounts that are pretty damn fast, exp pots, etc.. and personally I did't like then and I don't like it now. But it is their game, they can do what they want. I won't use it.
But I personally don't think that ONE (or even 1000) 4 hour 50% exp pot will change the game that much when we cry for double exp weekends (that is 100% at 3 DAYS) or that during the anniversary month we can make as many exp pots as we desire if we spend the time and money to have a second account to last a whole year (which technically isn't required if you use the shared bank to store for the other account). And when we already have zones with bonus exp (25%) built in. What is "game breaking" about having toons be a higher level? Game breaking in my book is having weapons/gear at raid level or over what you can get in game. Geez, even a 70/70 aug in my book isn't game breaking.
When I can't stand seeing idiots that want to spend money on a game (wait that means me too cuz I spend tons of money on 6 accounts a month to keep them active) to buy crap that means nothing but "Hey look at me, I'm an idiot with more money than brains" (like the idiots that sit on a new type mount in the bazaar, hallways of the lobby, in the guild hall, etc..) then I'll leave it. That is called a free market, unfortunately that will be too late for SoE who is already losing more and more each day to a game that has content that is years old and they can't even fix what they have out before they spew out more. This is a business, there are no friends in business, there are no buddies in business. Those always ruin a business. If you want a buddy or friend, you shouldn't be looking at SONY.. sorry.
But I do understand everyone's feeling on this I have them too, but I see the bigger picture too. THIS IS A BUSINESS.
They should allow players to sell their accounts. So what the heck this should be a go for those that like it and use it.
Myself well... it made me reconsider a great deal whether or not to even continue my subscription. I thought about switcihing to EQII (especially since I bought the expansion for Christmas for my spouse and myself) but I realize that it is there as well. So, I have been thinking long and hard about this and I think with this addition to make the game so easy for every one that I might have to return my game unopened and cut my loses and find some thing else to play.
Yes, I know I don't have to use it but I think of all the things they could have done to improve the game. Things like fixing or continuing uncompleted quests, fixing the 'bugs' in game, giving us back all the nerfed stuff.
Actually... equalizing all the races/classes and then there is the tradeskills etc.
Over all I think that this is positively the worst thing they could have created and done. Especially since they didn't even give us enough in game cash to buy some thing... it just blows... I know... because we are protesting they will make loot drops and dork the loot tables even more then what they have with the odd no longer worth the effort to get trade skill pelts and stuff.
That was a odd thing when it occurred and I really thought the merc's was a bad idea. It's worse even more so then the removing or rather 'adding' the ability for hybrid to create their own spells. This is... well it totally blows big green chunks and those that like I would guess that they use it even though they keep protesting that they don't. this is one really dumb idea SOE. Get over yourselves and listen to your players other wise there won't be any left. Then again... maybe that is what they are planning in the long wrong OR they will just force all the EQ players to EQII. I am truly surprised that, that hasn't happened already and yeah that is a dumb idea too.
And oh god, not the stupid integrity rant again.
Until they balance the game around "needing" items that you pay for, to be able to succeed at all, there's nothing stopping you from enjoying the game exactly how you were beforehand.. For god's sakes, "racing" to level cap? For crying out loud, who the hell cares who maxes out first? You're competing with people you don't even see in game? Or with your friends? If it's with your friends, you can ask that they not waste money on the race, and only use it when grinding aa.
If you want to complain about something, complain about how up until this last expansion, the group game had been balanced on the idea that, eventually everyone would have raid gear from the previous expansion, so should be able to put out that level of DPS in groups, and survive that level of DPS from mobs.
I'll never use station cash with the current price trends, maybe if they drop it down to 1/10th of the current price... maybe, more likely it'll take 1/20th or 1/50th of the current price, then I think Everyone would be popping it. $0.50 or $0.20 for four hours of better experience anyone? That I would do... $10.00? hell no. $1.00 maybe, on rare, rare occasions.
Frankly, stop whining about what other people 'can get' and ask for some boosts to what you can get, you'll probably never see them, but it would be nice if the community in solidarity would be productive, rather than anti-productive, ie: getting all classes to a similar baseline, and not getting each other nerfed repeatedly.
Station Cash is not some kind of manditory "you must do this to play the game" type of deal. Why would anyone think that? Wait, ignore the open-ended question. There is no reason to think that this program is something you "have to do" to play the game and have fun!
So, if someone has 10USD they want to exchange for 1000SC, they can buy a nifty looking set of white plate armor or a 2 hour experience potion. Wow, this is imbalancing the entire nature of the game! *Insert fake shocked face here*
If you don't think Station Cash is a good idea, then I have three words for you: "Don't Use It." Okay, technically four words--two contracted; let's split the difference at 3.5 words. That last sentence of mine was just as silly as any argument that Station Cash is a "problem". :) Let's all stop reacting emotionally to a change that really means ... nothing.
And before anyone wants to call me a Station Cash fan boy or something equally silly like that, I'll point out that I won't be using any of my hard-earned USD on that service. If there are folks out there who have the money to burn buying SC, then I'll be happy to receive some of it from you via PayPal! I won't give you anything for it, but if you're not using it for anything better ... HAR!
Stop reading this and go play the game. You know you want to, no matter how you feel about Station Cash! (Kill some orcs or something. You'll feel right as rain in no time!)
Fight With Honor And Triumph!
Gealaen Gaiamancer
Leader, <Wayfarers of Veeshan> Unrest Server
Kolath 59 Shaman
Flaur 19 Cleric
Peteweber 53 Enchanter
Marcel 51 Necromancer
Your (mtcards The Intelligent) logical deduction that I must be a Sony employee based solely on my post count and topic is quite ... outstanding. I bet you also think that Plato, Aristotle and Socrates were all morons, and that you should never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line. Wait, that last one is good. Good job!
Go ... play ... the ... game. You'll feel better after you kill something, especially if you're not using one of the SC-purchased XP potions. =P
Fight with Honor and Triumph!
Gealaen Gaiamancer
Leader, <Wayfarers of Veeshan> Unrest Server
Edited to clarify who I meant by "Your" in the first paragraph.
Edited, Dec 18th 2008 7:10pm by Gealaen
For years, Sony went after the ebayers (mainly by forcing ebay to end auctions), they talked about how the integrity of the game would be compromised etc. etc., I agreed to an extent. I have always thought the plat farmers and the other idiots who buy stuff in-game for real cash were stupid, but at least the crap they bought was made "IN GAME".
Now Sony is not only disregarding what they for so long lobbied against, but are taking it a step further by offering items that were not "earned" by someone at some time.
Of course, the lazy dumb B******* will love this idea, since they can do with the game with how they live their lives, no effort at all, just gimme gimme gimme the easy way. Why do you think the presidential election went the way it did? Oh, you can mask it by saying this or that, but it came down to the "me" generation thinking they can get more free stuff or get ahead without earning it, just like EQ has now become.
I would have been fine with a Lazy Dumb Bas**** server so that all the LDB's could play with each other, but now we are going to have to put up with those same morons on regular servers. Nice Job Sony, be sure to have your employees post about how good an idea this is on this and other sites to try and make the people with sense think they're wrong.
Kolath 59 Shaman
Flaur 19 Cleric
Peteweber 53 Enchanter
Marcel 51 Necromancer
That has nothing whatsoever to do with Station Cash. :)
Oh, wait, we agree on another thing: people who spend RL money on in game items are a bit silly. (I won't go as far as a personal attack like he will, calling them "stupid". But then, I've also never claimed to be "The Intelligent", either.)
I would argue that Sony is not disregarding what they lobbied against (in fighting the ebayers and plat sellers of the world) in creating Station Cash. The items available via the new function are new items. Items that have a marginal impact on gameplay. Shiny new white plate armor! Imbalancing! The servers are going to crash any second now!
So, "mtcards the Intelligent", how many explitives did you want to use in your post to reinforce just how rational and enlightened you are? :) I don't see anything wrong with someone using their resources to buy whatever they want to buy if they can (or even if they can't) afford it. It's their money. It's their playtime. They're not hurting you. There's no reason for you to get cranky and have to break your "shift 8" key combination to write words to expand your vocabulary.
And I'm pretty sure that Sony employees have little to do with posting here, outside of their official capacities. (That's pronounced "cah pah sit ees", and means "their jobs".) I know I usually don't lurk on my own company's website and heckle our customers! By the way, look--I'm up to three posts, now! By your logic, that means I should work for Activision or something by now.
As I've mentioned before, go play the game. I'm about done making dinner, so I'll be in game later myself. If I don't watch TV, or do any of the other leisure (prounounced "lee sure", and means "fun") activities I choose to do with my own resources (means money, which I'm not trading in for Station Cash, either). :)
I hope there are other people out there with enough brain cells to rub together to find all of this just as hillarious as I do!
Sure, they dont want anyone else making money off the products and services they designed but why shouldnt they make money off it? Think about it.. its the same when movie studios fight against piracy but they can put out, say, a special edition dvd of their movie and that's perfectly accceptable.
If nothing else, this argument has proven that Mr. Mtcards the Intelligent is not quite what he claims to be.
Edited, Dec 19th 2008 9:07am by Hedrack
SOE has done the same thing saying that the selling of ANY item wouild ruin the integrity of the game. Now, they are not only selling items, but ones you cant get in game. Total hypocrisy and if you cant understand that, then you might need to head down "reality path"
Kolath 59 Shaman
Flaur 19 Cleric
Peteweber 53 Enchanter
Marcel 51 Necromancer
They dont want people to profit off what they designed and created, but if they want to make extra money off it.. how is that wrong, at all?
If YOU dont understand that, then YOU need to go down the reality path. Pretty funny that you claim to be a buisness expert yet you dont seem to understand a simple, basic concept.
Edited, Dec 18th 2008 5:05pm by Joruliz
Kolath 59 Shaman
Flaur 19 Cleric
Peteweber 53 Enchanter
Marcel 51 Necromancer
your such a noob, not even 50% of the players would even use a forum, yet 90% oif them hate this idea? more like a bunch of butthurt whiners complaining about something that barely even effects them.
oh wait! i must be a sony employee since i disagree with the ayou! thats all you seem to be able to say in response to any post here after all.
its also really funny to see anyone who isnt up in arms against this is just a fanboy or sony employee, grow up, the only people that care about this are for the most part a bunch of nerds having a rage fit, who "are canceling all there accounts" or "every single person they know is canceling all there accounts", the emptiest threat in existence,
half the people that say this probably either have never even played it, dont even have an account active, or have no real plans to cancel, but are just having there hissy fit.
Edited, Dec 19th 2008 8:45pm by MasterOfWar
Edited, Dec 19th 2008 8:58pm by MasterOfWar
Fight back against masturbation!
No, I am not an employee... my old alla account got a posting ban for telling off idiots like you.
When you graduate from high school, maybe you will understand. Until then, enjoy being a troll.
Kolath 59 Shaman
Flaur 19 Cleric
Peteweber 53 Enchanter
Marcel 51 Necromancer
How do you ignore something and reply to it at the same time? And you say I'm not intelligent? Lol, there's just no limit to your stupidity, is there?
There are alot of people (including two accounts in my house), that have canceled their subscriptions.
And about Sony... sure the company isn't dumb, but the people that are running it are.
Why the hell would I pay a monthly subscription for a game that has micro transactions when there are a number of them out there that are free to play in the first place.
Thank you Andrew for posting this on the main page of Allakhazam. I would really like to see a dedicated server instead of all of them for this "feature".
Bonechip (Formerly of the Stromm Server)
P.S. Is there a petition or something out there that we could show our disapproval of this atrocity. If not, can one of the nice people at Alla's make one?
Edited, Dec 18th 2008 4:21pm by Sparxx
I just don't get it. I play EQ2 because I enjoy it and it allows me to relax away from RL. I do not see how this is going to affect my enjoyment of the game. If Station Cash takes away your enjoyment by all means quit or better yet just don't use the service. I know I don't plan on wasting any of my money on this fluff. Let others enjoy it.
Edited, Dec 18th 2008 10:31pm by gongestmort
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fanboi
"1. Someone who is hopelessly devoted to something and will like anything associated with their particular thing."
Doesn't seem to have hurt things at all. There's a very loud vocal minority. But as someone noted on the forums, lots of people who have said it was unbearable have been seen logging in.
I was highly skeptical at first, but if SOE goes forward with their non game breaking fluff, I don't see a problem. If they start selling raid loot? Yeah, I'll have a problem. AA and SOW potions? meh.
SOE did not pay me for this post.
ZAM Senior Content Manager
EverQuest II
Free Realms
My Non-Gaming Blog My Twitter
Nuff said.
Fly High Daevas,
Tamat ~ Andrew Beegle
Community Manager
Nuff said.
I respectfully disagree that any of those are game breaking.
ZAM Senior Content Manager
EverQuest II
Free Realms
My Non-Gaming Blog My Twitter
Not a fan of the service, more or less for that reason.
Fly High Daevas,
Tamat ~ Andrew Beegle
Community Manager
Not a fan of the service, more or less for that reason.
One gets XP bonuses on one's whole account if one has toons at level 80. It's similarily unfair. But game-breaking? No.
ZAM Senior Content Manager
EverQuest II
Free Realms
My Non-Gaming Blog My Twitter
An as far as the topis itself goes i see no problem with them selling things in the game. If i wanted to spend 10$ for 50% exp bonus for 4 hours how is that going to affect you?? Are you on a PVp server and therfore i can be higher leveld and have better spells or skills??? Really there are two types of players the casual gamer who plays several hours a week in a non raiding guild and with friends and such and the hard core raid 4-6 days a week players the casual peeps are gonna pay the money in order to be able to get to the higher level stuff in teh bazar and such. I mean why not make everything no drop and you have to be there to use it. That solves all the problems of the plat sellers and will lower the bazar prices. They should make servers for hard core raiders and leave a few for the more casual players then.
But in the end if you dont like the concept then dont use it.
Armourcarr, Zek Bazaar merchant
Vinney DeWanderer, Zek Human Ranger
Vinney DeWanderer, Zek Human Ranger
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/userimages.html
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