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A firearm question for you LeftiesFollow

#1 Dec 24 2012 at 2:12 PM Rating: Good
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Is there any situation or circumstance where you unequivocally would agree that the private ownership, sale, or use of a firearm is warranted? Either a specific or general condition where you'd unconditionally support an unassailable ownership, use, or sale of a firearm and would do so to the point of writing it in explicit and specific language into the US Constitution?

It probably has been discussed endlessly in a different thread, but with the whole CT school shooting I am guessing this is the new and latest cause d'jour of the Left-- to which my thinking is that there can be no compromise on this issue. Based on your (the Left's) track record, any compromise just lets the camel's nose under the tent to be soon followed by the rest of the smelly animal. And to the extent that *** marriage, legalized drug use, and every other social/cultural issue has been used as a template for change, this particular issue now can actually affect me and mine in that if enacted my ability to defend myself and those I love is impacted, unlike those other political footballs which are largely philosophical/religious questions.

Based on this set of assumptions, is there any room for compromise if I were willing to seriously talk about gun control (and I had the sole power to enact legislation to make it so)? Is there a point at which you would unconditionally recognise my right to own, sell, and use a firearm in exchange for specific conditions in return?

Feel free to imagine you could make this so for argument's sake and if necessary, list specific weapon types, caliber, magazine capacity, and, what the heck, color, since black plastic seems to make you guys irate.

I am listening.

Totem

Edited, Dec 24th 2012 3:13pm by Totem
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#2 Dec 24 2012 at 2:27 PM Rating: Good
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Totem wrote:
Is there any situation or circumstance where you unequivocally would agree that the private ownership, sale, or use of a firearm is warranted? Either a specific or general condition where you'd unconditionally support an unassailable ownership, use, or sale of a firearm and would do so to the point of writing it in explicit and specific language into the US Constitution?

I think the entire notion of there being a situation where the acquisition of lethal force is beyond scrutiny to be absolutely laughable.
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#3 Dec 24 2012 at 2:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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#4 Dec 24 2012 at 2:38 PM Rating: Good
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So I take it that is a "No"?

I kinda figgured as much. Partisanship is truly dead.
:(

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#5 Dec 24 2012 at 2:40 PM Rating: Good
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Well, with the Left pretty much doing a good turn at acting as Z's, I suppose it's open season then.
/shrug
Cool.

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#6 Dec 24 2012 at 2:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hunting rifles and shotguns plus handguns I have zero problem with. Guns like assault rifles and smg's are fine to own with special permits plus inspections to make sure you are storing your weapons in a gun safe along with the ammo. Not completely sure what it takes to get a special permit and what all it takes to keep it current or if it is a lifelong thing but mental exams plus regular gun safety classes should be something that is absolutely mandatory for special permits. Regular gun owners should have to take gun safety classes every couple of years also due to the disturbingly high number accidents that happen with firearms.
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#7 Dec 24 2012 at 2:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Totem wrote:
Is there any situation or circumstance where you unequivocally would agree that the private ownership, sale, or use of a firearm is warranted? Either a specific or general condition where you'd unconditionally support an unassailable ownership, use, or sale of a firearm and would do so to the point of writing it in explicit and specific language into the US Constitution?

I would like to see a legislative list of what guns ARE allowed rather than trying to play the game of disallowing varieties and having manufactures play with degrees to slide under the wire. I'm not about to try to compose such a list myself for various reasons. Given the changing nature of technology, I think trying to codify it Constitutionally would be foolish.
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#8 Dec 24 2012 at 2:46 PM Rating: Good
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And you'd be fine with setting that in verbal stone, C? Never to be challenged or infringed upon? So for those various classes and exams you'd allow in perpetuity ownership of handguns, rifles, and shotguns of all calibers? Wow, I am actually surprised. Truely!

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#9 Dec 24 2012 at 2:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Totem wrote:
Well, with the Left pretty much doing a good turn at acting as Z's, I suppose it's open season then.

Fancy that you didn't get a torrent of responses on Christmas Eve.

Given that you have zero power or ability to make things happen, I'm not too worried about trying to draw up pseudo-legislation for ya.
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#10 Dec 24 2012 at 2:48 PM Rating: Good
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I dunno what's going on here.
All "lefties" are against all private gun ownership?
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#11 Dec 24 2012 at 2:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Apparently.
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#12 Dec 24 2012 at 2:55 PM Rating: Good
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I'd like to see liscenses, with a limit put on the number of guns a person can own, reliscencing every 3-5 years, (though I'm not against allowances being made for non-functional collectors pieces), a limit on how much ammo a person can buy in a given period of time, restrictions put on magazine/clip capacity, and promotion of less lethal ammo as a self protection alternative. I'd also like to see laws against body armor for non military/law enforcement/security.
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#13 Dec 24 2012 at 2:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Assuming you can afford taking the medical exams and tests, not to mention pass both. Also it should be noted that the owners of guns that require special permits will have regular inspections of how they store their guns and ammo along with said guns present at inspection, with mess-ups theoretically costing them their licenses plus any special permit guns and ammo for said guns if they fail.

I would like for hunting rifles, shotguns and regular handguns to require said safety storage and inspections but I am willing to allow that to slide.
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#14 Dec 24 2012 at 2:57 PM Rating: Good
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But that is the trouble, Jo. The Right sees a reluctance to codify the right to ownership as a sneaky way to later neuter gun owners at a politically expedient time-- such as now after the CT shooting. And the skyrocketing gun sales underline this. I can't help but think that unlike other social issues, if it were placed into the Constitution a specific set of constructs wherein guns were obtainable and legally guaranteed, then compromise could be reached. Unfortunately, until such a place is reached, gun owners are going to treat this with the utmost suspicion as political opportunism or at worst, cynicism.

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#15 Dec 24 2012 at 2:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Totem wrote:
The Right sees a reluctance to codify the right to ownership as a sneaky way to later neuter gun owners at a politically expedient time

Tough shit. Maybe they should work for stronger laws themselves so there's less CT shootings to use as justification to take their precious little *****-replacements away.
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#16 Dec 24 2012 at 3:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Totem wrote:
And the skyrocketing gun sales underline this.


That the NRA and Gun Manufacturers' promote unfounded fear in their customers to boost sales and make money?
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#17 Dec 24 2012 at 3:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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That the NRA and Gun Manufacturers' promote unfounded fear in their customers to boost sales and make money?

Exactly. When you're being willing led by the balls by organizations whose very power and justification relies on "they're gonna take our guns!!", you're not interested in sane compromise anyway and will use any excuse to avoid it.

Witness the GOP leaders who stayed silent on CT until the NRA finally spoke first, essentially telling them what their own party line would be.

Edited, Dec 24th 2012 3:05pm by Jophiel
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#18 Dec 24 2012 at 3:05 PM Rating: Good
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And that even in response to this there will be a fairly large number of snarky answers which reinforces the perception that the Left-- yes, in general terms it is the Left, not the Right, who wants to restrict guns --will use this as a tool to further their agenda.

So really, it is just a simple proposition: Would you be willing to exchange some freedoms for a guaranteed right to some form of ownership, use, or sale of a firearm? I'd have to say that a healthy dose of skepticism is due when tests or exams are required, just for the sake of it allows for the stacking of the deck against any particular out-of-favor group.

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#19 Dec 24 2012 at 3:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Totem wrote:
And that even in response to this there will be a fairly large number of snarky answers

I'm sorry. We can't all say "An armed man in every classroom!" and drop the mic as our well considered solution.
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yes, in general terms it is the Left, not the Right, who wants to restrict guns

Well, no shit, Professor Politics Smiley: laugh

Edited, Dec 24th 2012 3:08pm by Jophiel
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#20 Dec 24 2012 at 3:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not against gun ownership. There, I said it.

I don't see the need for private ownership of guns that were developed for military purposes (and please, let's not get into some absurd reductivist argument about muskets). Specifically, I'm talking about guns that were designed to fire more bullets faster than one would need for hunting, say.

My dad owned guns. He hunted. His hunting license was used, among other things, to conserve wild lands and wetlands. Conservation was our common ground.

People who argue for private ownership of what are commonly called assault weapons or military weapons need to explain why they need them, as far as I'm concerned.
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#21 Dec 24 2012 at 3:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not de facto against gun ownership either but if some dip wants to try and make it black and white, I'll pick "no guns" over "Murder some more children in the name of freedom" every single time.
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#22 Dec 24 2012 at 3:11 PM Rating: Good
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I vote democrat, and own guns. And the majority of my family are hunters who own various rifles and shotguns. Many of whom vote democrat and are pro-Union. Gun control is something that the Left seems pretty divided about.

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#23 Dec 24 2012 at 3:13 PM Rating: Decent
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What is always puzzling to me is why the Left continues to infantilize the American public when it comes to weapons. The dichotomy in thinking that a 10 round magazine is somehow safer than a 30 round magazine just demonstrates two things: A fundamental lack of understanding about weaponry and the hypocrisy of purposefully undercutting safety in the name of safety.

Why is there a fetish on the Left to turn lawabiding citizens into criminals when it comes to firearms?

Totem
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#24 Dec 24 2012 at 3:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well yeah, if the option was "no guns" or "ak's for all" I would side with the no guns crowd. I just feel as though there is a healthy middle ground that people need to realize.

Totem wrote:
I'd have to say that a healthy dose of skepticism is due when tests or exams are required, just for the sake of it allows for the stacking of the deck against any particular out-of-favor group.


Then how do you suppose we keep weapons that are designed for killing other humans (smg's and assault rifles for example, extended clips for pistols are another) out of the hands of people who would go into a school and kill children or start a fire to kill the firefighters that respond?
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#25 Dec 24 2012 at 3:16 PM Rating: Good
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Totem wrote:
What is always puzzling to me is why the Left continues to infantilize the American public when it comes to weapons.

Probably because they're debating against such reasoned and mature arguments as "Why is there a fetish on the Left to turn lawabiding citizens into criminals when it comes to firearms?"
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#26 Dec 24 2012 at 3:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Criminy wrote:
Well yeah, if the option was "no guns" or "ak's for all" I would side with the no guns crowd. I just feel as though there is a healthy middle ground that people need to realize.

But the NRA-beholden politicans have no interest in a "healthy middle ground". They believe that the more guns everyone has, the safer everyone is. Might as well start at the extremes and hope to reach a middle ground that way.
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#27 Dec 24 2012 at 3:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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#28 Dec 24 2012 at 3:22 PM Rating: Decent
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"All "lefties" are against all private gun ownership?" --TT
"Apparently." <chuckles> --Jo
"blah blah blah about how obvious it is that the Left is generally against gun ownership" --Jo

And I'm Professor Poliitics? See? I try for a relatively serious question about gun control and get snarkiness from someone who should otherwise have at least a half-baked opinion. And I'd have thought you'd have at least a half unbaked opinion on how to produce compromise on this issue. But apparently not.

Why bother with any words at all, Jo? Just cut to the chase and post the laughing emote. It'll help you spam the board with worthless responses that much quicker.

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#29 Dec 24 2012 at 3:27 PM Rating: Good
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So, Sammy, you'd be willing to codify that single shot weapons are acceptable for private citizens to own? No restrictions on caliber or number?

I'd like to call to your attention that a shotgun is far, far more deadly in [/i]any[/i] circumstance inside 50 yards than any handgun or rifle. In fact, I'd be willing to take my chances with a well trained handgun shooter against a poorly trained shotgunner any day.

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#30 Dec 24 2012 at 3:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Totem wrote:
Why bother with any words at all, Jo? Just cut to the chase and post the laughing emote. It'll help you spam the board with worthless responses that much quicker.

Sorry you're so butthurt on this Christmas Eve that I didn't give your precious post the love you felt it deserved. Who knew you depended so much on me for validation? The good news is that the roast is about ready so I'm not spending any more time on the topic tonight and maybe someone else will stroke your ego.
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#31 Dec 24 2012 at 3:34 PM Rating: Decent
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But Criminy, that is the fallacy of the anti-gun rhetoric: Any particular gun isn't inherently a human killing device any more than any other. A .22 is the weapon of choice for close execution style killing. It is also a fine small varmint caliber. A shotgun is an absolute people killer regardless its' size or capacity and yet it is universally thought of as sporting weapon. The vaunted Tech9 is a horrible weapon period, but is vilified as the metalurgic version of the bubonic plague.

This is what I mean by there being a fundamental lack of understanding about firearms, especially since the vast majority of opinions on this subject are formed by Hollywood and movies like The Expendables.

Totem
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#32 Dec 24 2012 at 3:34 PM Rating: Good
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I'm about to go to my parents and have an awesome Christmas Eve meal consisting of Little Caesar's pizza and exchange a few gifts with them.

(tomorrow is the big dinner)
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#33 Dec 24 2012 at 3:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Totem wrote:
So, Sammy, you'd be willing to codify that single shot weapons are acceptable for private citizens to own? No restrictions on caliber or number?


Totem



Not if it means that every wingnut in the anti-gubbmint compound has a row of legally acquired cannons on top of his roof, no. And I'm aware of the lethality of shotguns.


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#34 Dec 24 2012 at 3:43 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, whatever, Jo-emote. Go enjoy the roast and give Flea my regards. Do try to avoid inner city Chicago, ok? Those gun control laws there haven't been too effective and I'd hate to learn of your boy taking some stray gunfire by accident.

No, scratch all that. Merry Christmas to you and yours despite your snooty and cynical smugness. I truly do hope that misfortune never visits your household in the form of a random shooter entering your kid's classroom and gives you something to truly be sorrowful for, leaving you to wonder what could have been done to stop it. Because there are a number of families who are experiencing just those emotions this afternoon in CT. And I suspect right now they'd be willing to consider any option if it'd only give them their family member back, even to the extent of arming teachers if need be.

But give your boy an extra hug tonight when you tuck him in and be thankful the roast beef was perfectly done and your child's bed isn't empty and cold, because no smarmy emotes, no one line ripostes will ever fix that butthurt. Well, perhaps in your particular case it might since there is no chance he would or could ever find himself cowering while a psycho draws a bead on his little body, right? Right?

Totem

Edited, Dec 24th 2012 5:34pm by Totem
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#35 Dec 24 2012 at 3:55 PM Rating: Good
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Sammy, that is the rational and justified view of the pro-gun advocates when they protest the pointlessness of gun control laws-- that gun control laws are misguided and restrict weapons or mods which truly aren't dangerous in comparison to other ones in the hands of a shooter. I'd make the argument it is in our favor that people are so conditioned by television and movies to actually use weapons like auto handguns and so-called assault weapons when there are far more deadly means of slaughtering large numbers of people in tight enclosed spaces.

And that is what we talking about, right? Groups of people getting caught in locations where they are restricted in their movements and avenues of escape? A can of gasoline and a match would have been considerably worse in that classroom, but luckily for those who weren't shot, that kid decided to use something which represented death to him instead. And against little children a rock would've been just as effective.

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#36 Dec 24 2012 at 4:10 PM Rating: Decent
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TirithRR, my apologies for painting you with a broad brush, but I'd argue that it is indeed the Left who are more concerned with gun control than the Right, your relatives notwithstanding. And so, having people in your family who obviously enjoy firearms, what is their--and your --take on gun control?

My belief is that any form of gun control is an illusion at best, a form of tyranny at worst. I don't know where the notion that tyranny only comes from the government arises, but if you live in a neighborhood where only criminal have guns and where you are afraid to walk the streets at night, I'd make the argument that that is a pretty close-to-home form of tyranny. And the illusion that by taking away a law abiding citizen's abilty to protect themsleves from such a threat is given in the guise of a restrictive gun law is consummate sillliness.

The obvious needs to be stated here: Only criminals use guns in a crime. A law abiding citizen isn't going to engage in a crime. Should he decide at some point to use his weapon in an act of violence apart from self defense, he is no longer that law abiding citizen we are constitutionally required to assume he is and then his right to own a weapon should be utterly restricted.

Again, why is there such a desire among gun control advocates to infantilize law abiding citizens? Are you afraid of them? More so than the criminals who have already demonstrated untrustworthiness? The police aren't there to protect citizenry, they are there to enforce order and investigate the crime after it occurs. To think otherwise is as unproductive as thinking gun control laws actually keep guns out of the hands of lawbreakers.

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#37 Dec 24 2012 at 4:24 PM Rating: Decent
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"I think the entire notion of there being a situation where the acquisition of lethal force is beyond scrutiny to be absolutely laughable." --cid

So the US Constitution is a document worthy of derision? Because as of right now, the 2nd Amendment is has codified exactly that-- the acquisition and ownership of objects that can under certain conditions dispense lethal force. But to judge from your answer, I'll go out on a limb and say that you believe it is a "living document" and suseceptable to revisions and adjustments that change with the cultural winds of the moment. Is that an accurate assessment of your position?

Totem
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#38 Dec 24 2012 at 4:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Holy baby Jesus on the eve of his birthday, why are you rage-spamming?
#39 Dec 24 2012 at 4:30 PM Rating: Decent
In North Dakota,Bijou could get a gun

So I find gun laws a joke, because I've grown up with people unwrapping guns as xmas gifts...maybe I'll get one myself this year, again.
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#40 Dec 24 2012 at 4:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Totem wrote:
But Criminy, that is the fallacy of the anti-gun rhetoric: Any particular gun isn't inherently a human killing device any more than any other. A .22 is the weapon of choice for close execution style killing. It is also a fine small varmint caliber. A shotgun is an absolute people killer regardless its' size or capacity and yet it is universally thought of as sporting weapon. The vaunted Tech9 is a horrible weapon period, but is vilified as the metalurgic version of the bubonic plague.

This is what I mean by there being a fundamental lack of understanding about firearms, especially since the vast majority of opinions on this subject are formed by Hollywood and movies like The Expendables.

Totem


Ah so you are not going to respond to my question but instead nit pick on minor details. Yes a shotgun can kill just as easy as an assault rifle but one is used for hunting and the other is used an a metal ***** extension.

I am going to have to agree with Jophiel with this one, you are not interested in discussion. Have a wonderful Christmas.
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#41 Dec 24 2012 at 4:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Rage-spamming, Guenny? It's just another day here in the land of endless firearms and IEDs. Christmas card mornings are something happens back in the never-neverland of the real world, not the reality of life for 220,000 troops here in Afghanistan.

Admittedly, my perception may be a bit off since news is scarce out here, but from what we hear gun control is the real rage these days, albeit, the nonsensical discussion of it on boards like this one. The funny thing is, with nearly every person here armed with at least one automatic weapon-- truly automatic, not merely semi-auto ---there hasn't been an instance of a mass shooting that I am aware of unless you are counting the Taliban sympathizers over here.

So this isn't some misguided rant, it is just another day for me where for once I actually have time to post some opinions on the subject which has been getting so much attention these days. Huh, so, yeah, I guess today is special that way, sure.

Totem
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#42 Dec 24 2012 at 5:00 PM Rating: Excellent
I'd describe myself as center-left and am generally fine with gun ownership. I also realize that 100% safety (viz Columbine, CT) is impossible so I don't think these things should really impact the debate. That's a security issue.

On that note, I think a high school diploma at a minimum should be required for gun ownership. That is to say, if you're too irresponsible to even finish high school, you'd likely be pretty ******* irresponsible with a gun.
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#43 Dec 24 2012 at 5:01 PM Rating: Decent
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No, Crim, I did respond soberly to your question. The fact that crazies are using a poor choice of weapon for their purposes just points up to the efficacy of Hollywood and their indoctrination of our youth that handguns and black plastic-y semi automatic rifles are the best things to dispatch others in their misguided attempts to rectify some indecipherable wrong or injustice in their heads.

Because as I have already stated, if a bloodbath were truly their goal and they were dedicated to making that happen, a jug of gasoline and a match are far more eefective and efficient than that **** black AR-15 or boxy Glock to send innocents off this mortal coil. Yet there is no call for gasoline exams or handling classes. Why? Because no one uses them at this time.

And therein is the lie of the gun control argument: If only you ban gun X, or 30 round magazine Y peace will break out in all our schools, theaters, and shopping malls. And that is utter BS.

The mentally ill are the problem, but we as a nation would rather medicate them to their eyeballs and concentrate on guns instead. It is treating the symptom, not the disease.

But my initial question speaks to that concern. Because guns are the fixation in this country, what kind or type would you be willing to allow in exchange for your "safety"? I hate to break it to you, but banning all guns isn't going to happen and even if that were to occur, tragedies like Portland, Sandy Hook, and Aurora would still take place because you haven't addressed the core problem.

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#44 Dec 24 2012 at 5:15 PM Rating: Decent
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"Yes a shotgun can kill just as easy as an assault rifle but one is used for hunting and the other is used an a metal ***** extension" cid (I think)

But that is simply not true, even if you just threw that out there for discussion. An assault rifle needs to be specifically aimed, whereas a shotgun needs no particular technique like squeezing the trigger. All you need to do is point the thing in the general direction and multiple pellets larger than the diameter of a round used in an AR-15 come out and spray in a pattern designed to affect a large area.

Just because whacked out teenagers don't use them doesn't mean they aren't better suited for their intended purposes. As I said, be glad that shotguns aren't **** in Hollywood producer's minds, because they are sold in nearly every 5 & Dime around the country-- including many of the most restrictive places in the US. And why is that? Because they are perceived as you perceived them-- that they are objects, tools if you will, for hunting purposes.

Do you see where gun control gets you? You put a Band-Aid on a cancer. No, that's not right, you put a Band-Aid on the symptom of cancer-- that's more accurate. There are far more dangerous weapons and objects out there by a country mile and the (Danger ahead! Broad paintbrush is about to be used!) Left is fixated on guns which don't do much damage, my apologies to the families affected by these shootings. It's only because the crazies haven't discovered them yet.

Do you see?

And you aren't about to begin legislating a 5 day waiting period for a can of gas or a car, are you? Lots of mean scary things out there in this big bad world...

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#45 Dec 24 2012 at 5:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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I, am atypical among 'lefties'. I appreciate guns in a hobbyist sense. I have taught marksmanship and gun safety courses, have built micro-ballistic missiles and EM-propulsion type systems (in a limited fashion). I don't currently own a gun at my home, as I have little reason to.

I don't want guns banned. I don't even want Assault weapons banned. I've personally shot the AR-15, with the extended mag (much better than the retarded jam mags) and las sight. I do think regulation on them is lax, there is plenty of room for safety restrictions, as well as a more coherent federal background check system. Mag size could also be on the table, it's not that taxing to have multiple lower cap clips for a range environment. I really don't see why this issue can't be solved quickly, sensibly, and in such a way that we aren't left with more swiss cheese style regulatory control.Sorry, I'm lying, what keeps this issue coming back up again and again (via national tragedies) is it's a juicy issue for wholly political reasons. Something which is simply indefensible.
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#46 Dec 24 2012 at 5:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Because as I have already stated, if a bloodbath were truly their goal and they were dedicated to making that happen, a jug of gasoline and a match are far more eefective and efficient than that **** black AR-15 or boxy Glock to send innocents off this mortal coil. Yet there is no call for gasoline exams or handling classes. Why? Because no one uses them at this time


No, it's really not. If you're example was one of the many, easily manufacture chemical-explosive composite weapons that you could, with a basic understanding of , create in your garage, that would be one thing. Gasoline alone isn't great for mass murder, unless your going the arson route.
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#47 Dec 24 2012 at 5:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Instead, we have loud voices who want to go straight to the worst possible outcome: The restriction of the very freedoms outlined in our Constitution, our 2nd Amendment.

Over 32,000 people died in auto accidents, yet we don't put but the very minimal restrictions on their use. And before you say it, yes, to do so more strictly would impinge on the rights of people everywhere to travel and congregate, two other rights our Constitution guarantees. Yet guns seem to into fall into this special catagory of rights which can be and should be restricted by reason of their limited purpose: self defense. Never mind that it is merely a tool, an inert object which doesn't operate or move until someone wills it into their hand and pulls the trigger. Empty of the cartiridges it can contain, it becomes an inefficient hammer. Or a paperweight.

Again, what is the fetish behind the infantilization of America where certain tools are considered too dangerous to be wielded by law abiding citizens? Wherein you are counted as being too weak minded or immature to handle a firearm? Perhaps I am phrasing it incorrectly. Let's try this: What is your fetish with helplessness?

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#48 Dec 24 2012 at 5:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Totem wrote:
"Yes a shotgun can kill just as easy as an assault rifle but one is used for hunting and the other is used an a metal ***** extension" cid (I think)

But that is simply not true, even if you just threw that out there for discussion. An assault rifle needs to be specifically aimed, whereas a shotgun needs no particular technique like squeezing the trigger. All you need to do is point the thing in the general direction and multiple pellets larger than the diameter of a round used in an AR-15 come out and spray in a pattern designed to affect a large area.


A semi-automatic (tactical shotgun) would be the weapon your looking for. That would also be an assault weapon. It's a room-clearer.
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#49 Dec 24 2012 at 5:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Totem wrote:
The road has no rules. It's a lawless wasteland of tar and those pressed against it. Better bring my gun.
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#50 Dec 24 2012 at 5:38 PM Rating: Decent
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I hear what you ae saying, Time. But for the Portland shooter and the CT kid, death was the intended product, both others and theirs'. Gasoline, at least in the case of Sandy Hook, would have been quite effective.

However, to get distracted by the methodology of one particular accelerant, gasoline, is to get distracted from the larger picture of people, intent on killing others, can and will find a way to do so with the least resistance and the greatest impact from their standpoint. Because the mentally ill are allowed to roam freely, if guns are not available, then knives are readily at hand. Consider China and the 22 people injured there. Just because no one was killed at this specific occurance doesn't negate the lethality and deadlinesss of knives. Again, crazy people are not necessarily stupid people. If one form of action isn't available, is there anyone here who disputes that they will find another way to carry out the instructions of the person in their head to kill as many as they can?

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#51 Dec 24 2012 at 5:46 PM Rating: Default
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No, not even a tactical shotgun is required. Merely a hacksaw and a pocket full of double aught on a single shot shotgun will do more damage more quickly than any handgun or semi-automatic rifle in the hands of the typical owner. A cut down shotgun needs only be pointed in the general-- and very general at that --direction of whoever is there and it'll be almost certain to hit and kill or grieviously injure that person(s) within the circular pattern approximately 10 feet wide at a distance of 15 feet.

And a single shot can be emptied and loaded in 2 seconds easily with little practice. And there are no confusing stovepipes or magazines to deal with.

See?

And here everybody is talking about those evil assault weapons. Basically, these psychos are pikers when it comes to wholesale killing. But hey, these are just for sport.

Totem
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