Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

Operation: Rolling JubileeFollow

#1 Nov 15 2012 at 10:53 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Story -- tl;dr at bottom:
CNN wrote:
Now, a growing contingent within the greater movement is refocusing on Occupy's original victims, the hundreds of thousands of people burdened with all sorts of debt. Many of the debtors owe many times the original amounts they charged up on their credit cards, medical bills or student loans.

Such debt is bought and sold on a debt market for pennies on the dollar by debt collection agencies and others capable of pressuring the debtors most effectively. (The reason debt is sold for such a small fraction of its acute value is that most collectors will not be able to recoup the money. They might buy $10,000 of credit card company from a bank or reseller, but most likely only be able to collect a tiny portion of it from the debtors, who either go bankrupt or simply broke.)

In the belief that much of this debt is comprised of unjustified fees, inappropriate credit products or even outright fraud, an offshoot of Occupy called Strike Debt is working to erase it all...by purchasing it, and then forgiving it. Yes, seems it's that easy: Buy debt for a tiny fraction of its face value in the same way that credit agencies buy debt. But then, instead of attempting to collect that money, simply erase it. Families struggling to pay for the compound interest on their 1990s medical bills, for example, simply find out that it's been relieved.

The whole debt-rolling operation, known as Rolling Jubilee, begins on November 15, with a variety show and telethon in New York City entitled The People's Bailout. Occupy-friendly celebrities from comedian Janeane Garofalo and Daily Show writer Lizz Winstead to music legends such as Sonic Youth's Lee Ranaldo and Fugazi's Guy Picciotto will perform for a live and -- of course -- streaming audience while the website accepts donations. According to their estimates, every $25 will abolish an estimated $500 worth of debt. According to David Rees, one of the founders of Strike Debt and a leading voice in the Rolling Jubillee, "As a test run, we spent $500, which bought $14,000 of distressed debt. We then ERASED THAT DEBT."


TL;DR -- Folks from Occupy Wall Street are using charitable donations to purchase consumer debt via the same market as debt collectors. Rather than using that debt ownership to call you up and threaten you, they then just forgive it.

Hey, more to them, says I. It's not as though debt collectors are doing what they do because of a sense of great cosmic justice, they're doing it to turn a profit. If someone else wants to buy the same product (debt) and toss it in the trash, why not?

On the other hand, I'm not sure it'll be vastly useful. I'm not sure how much they can buy as a single entity. It's also impossible to really target the impact; you might luck out and have your one sole debt get bought before it goes to a real collection agency or else you might have one debt out of ten get bought and you're still realistically as boned as you were before (and OWS is out the money they spent to buy that debt). So it doesn't seem especially fruitful but more power to 'em.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#2 Nov 15 2012 at 11:00 AM Rating: Decent
******
44,314 posts
Janeane Garofalo is still considered a comedian?

Meh, the idea behind it sounds great, but they're not buying anything specific so I imagine it's more like a percent of a percent per person's/family's debt being bought. So it was more along the lines of $14,000 spread out over several million people. I mean, yeah the idea is there but drops and buckets and all that.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#3 Nov 15 2012 at 11:04 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
lolgaxe wrote:
So it was more along the lines of $14,000 spread out over several million people.

Two million people who owed 0.7 cents each? ****, they must be poor if they couldn't pay that debt!

I'd assume it was $14,000 in debt spread over a couple or a dozen people.


Edited, Nov 15th 2012 11:04am by Jophiel
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#4 Nov 15 2012 at 11:06 AM Rating: Decent
Lunatic
******
29,491 posts

On the other hand, I'm not sure it'll be vastly useful. I'm not sure how much they can buy as a single entity. It's also impossible to really target the impact; you might luck out and have your one sole debt get bought before it goes to a real collection agency


Most of it is sold by "a real collection agency". It's just a market. I buy your debt for $.20/1 thinking your fairly easily (relatively) to collect from, but you turn out to be a deadbeat so I sell it for .10 and take the loss. Or, less frequently, I find out a traunch of debt was from people who were just legitimately hard to find or something and sell it for a profit. Most collectors are just brokers, converting some percentage of debt they buy and selling the rest.

Edit: Oh, and the real issue is just how massive the amount of outstanding consumer debt actually is. It'd be easier for them to hand out $100 on the subway and about as useful.

Edited, Nov 15th 2012 12:08pm by Smasharoo
____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#5 Nov 15 2012 at 11:08 AM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Smasharoo wrote:
Most of it is sold by "a real collection agency".

Oh, I know. But it starts with the actual creditor selling off the bad debt and that's why I said "get lucky" to catch it there. I know that, after that, it gets bounced and bought from agency to agency, losing value all the while.

Which means that the best cost:value for erasing debt from a monetary standpoint is the worst value from a "save their credit" standpoint.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#6 Nov 15 2012 at 12:25 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
*****
12,055 posts
Hmm, so, can you buy an individual consumers debt, or do they just sell larger consolidated debt packages? If you could just purchase your own debt and take the credit hit for the creditor's writeoff, that would probably be pretty effective compared to renegotiating a package or a structured bankruptcy, and give you a way around the associated upcharge by a consolidation corp.
____________________________
Just as Planned.
#7 Nov 15 2012 at 12:35 PM Rating: Good
While I'd imagine ones own debt could conceivably be purchased, its my understanding that the debt they're buying would be the kind of debt that couldn't be collected.

Medical Bills & Dead people?
____________________________
"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin


#8 Nov 15 2012 at 1:15 PM Rating: Good
****
6,470 posts
Timelordwho wrote:
If you could just purchase your own debt and take the credit hit for the creditor's writeoff, that would probably be pretty effective compared to renegotiating a package or a structured bankruptcy, and give you a way around the associated upcharge by a consolidation corp.


Debt Collector: ...you will be held responsible for the difference, which is $521.
Eugene Mirman: Do I have to go to jail?
Debt Collector: No! We'll just have to make arrangements to get it taken care of.
Eugene Mirman: Can I instead go to jail?
Debt Collector: Unfortunately, we see these banks do this all the time...
Eugene Mirman: But if I do go to court, and I prove that they tricked me, do I then get ownership of Fleet Bank?
Debt Collector: No...I'm not saying...no, you weren't tricked by them. The client is now Collect America.
Eugene Mirman: Can I buy that debt from Collect America?
Debt Collector: No
Eugene Mirman: There's no way for me to take the debt of myself onto myself?
Debt Collector: No, 'cause it's your own debt.
Eugene Mirman: C'mon....isn't there something you can do?
Debt Collector: No.
Eugene Mirman: 'Cause I can counter-sue, can't I?
Debt Collector: Against whom?
Eugene Mirman: Whoever.
____________________________
Latest Articles:
Monaco: What's Yours is Mine Review

Follow me on Twitter!
#9 Nov 15 2012 at 1:56 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
*****
12,055 posts
So, funnel it through a shell? seems pretty basic, the main caveat being that a specific debt needs to be purchasable not a chunk of debts.
____________________________
Just as Planned.
#10 Nov 15 2012 at 6:37 PM Rating: Excellent
Tracer Bullet
*****
12,586 posts

If there's anything I've learned about the economy, it's that carving up thousands of people's debt into tiny bits, bundling them together, and assigning them a value based on their risk of default, is a no-lose proposition.

____________________________
Na Zdrowie
#11 Nov 15 2012 at 8:24 PM Rating: Default
Encyclopedia
******
31,876 posts
Jophiel wrote:
Which means that the best cost:value for erasing debt from a monetary standpoint is the worst value from a "save their credit" standpoint.


Or a "reduce outstanding debt" standpoint at all. Such a project would have zero, or even negative total impact on private debt in this country. Any debt that collectors can reasonably expect to collect will be collected directly. The kind of debt that they're targeting is debt that already has a low probability of *ever* being collected. Otherwise, you couldn't buy it at ten cents on the dollar. As Smash points out, it just becomes a probabilistic commodity that gets traded around. Very little if any of it ever gets collected. Thus, you aren't actually saving the economy anything by forgiving it. The financial markets have already more or less adjusted to the new 'value' of that debt.

I suppose you could buy it, forgive it, and then claim the difference as a loss, but that's not really helping "people". Just the folks running the organization benefit (along with whatever other operations they're involved in on the side). If you really want to help out some family struggling to pay off their mortgage, you really do have to give them the money to make up the difference in their mortgage. Forgiving the debt on a mortgage that was foreclosed on 5 years ago doesn't help the family at all. By the time any debt is marked down that much, it's way past the point at which forgiving the debt will help the people who originally generated it. They've long since taken their credit hit and moved on.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#12 Nov 16 2012 at 8:49 AM Rating: Decent
Lunatic
******
29,491 posts
Forgiving the debt on a mortgage that was foreclosed on 5 years ago doesn't help the family at all. By the time any debt is marked down that much, it's way past the point at which forgiving the debt will help the people who originally generated it. They've long since taken their credit hit and moved on.

Actually, 5 year old defaulted mortgage debt being paid would be a huge benefit to the credit score of the debtors. They'd probably benefit from lower interest rates, better chances of getting a job, or whatever other things credit reports are used for these days. Not an issue for me or Nexa but I assume having less than perfect credit can make life much harder.
____________________________
Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? ***. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 36 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (36)