NYPD Police BrutalityFollow

I'm always a bit cautious about jumping to conclusions with regard to police brutality claims when the video breaks in only while the police are charging in an pepper spraying folks. Doesn't tell us what happened prior to that point, how long it went on, what was said and done, etc.

I'll give you a hint: Pretty much everyone who's ever been dogpiled, pepper sprayed, or tasered by the police has insisted that they did nothing at all.

There's no question in my mind that it's only showing the worst of the worst, but I still think the pepper spray bit was a tad excessive.

3 different perspectives, with different times. The third one shows the guy getting beaten (though the reason the alteration starts is clearly on him--their response was still too brutal).

Still trying to find the longer video, but it's easy to see that the spray was NOT in response to any immediate threat, which is the only place it could even be argued to be acceptable.

It's very possible, but without knowing all the details it's hard to feel outrage. Like I said, the videos make the police look like bad guys, but that was kind of the point of those videos in the first place.

Out right now, so I can't watch the videos. I gather that the official police response was that the protesters were trying to prevent them from erecting barricades, or something to that effect.

I dunno, one way or the other. Seems like some people have been heading over there specifically to try to incite the cops. Wouldn't surprise me if the cops went overboard though, either.

Pepper spray is commonly used when attempting to arrest someone who is being unruly. The officer is often faced with having to struggle to put cuffs on someone, and then possibly other restraints just to get the person into the back of his car, all the while being hit by flailing arms, legs, elbows, etc. Now do that 15 times. Now do that every day for a week.

It's terrifically easy to look at one short video showing a snippet of a larger series of events and claim that the police overreacted. We don't know how many people were acting up. We don't know what happened before the video(s) start. We don't know what the people were doing. As a general rule though, you usually don't get pepper sprayed, hog tied, and thrown into a police car or wagon if all you were really doing was a peaceful legal demonstration.


It doesn't rule out the possibility that the police overreacted, but I just doubt it. They know they're on camera. They're put into an impossible situation. They have to remove people blocking some building entrance, or whatever it is they were doing. They have to arrest them. But the people refuse to let them. It's done that way to force the police to use pepper spray and to have to physically carry people out, specifically so that their buddies can get it on camera and call it police brutality. So I'm pretty likely to give the cops a hell of a lot of leeway in these situations.

Were they though? If they were, why were they still inside the area the police were attempting to cordon off? It's a trick taught to protesters when confronted with police. Say you're complying, ask (repeatedly and loudly) why the cops are being so mean, but continue to loiter in the area. It's designed to force a confrontation with police, while making it easy to produce a video that looks like the police went after an innocent group of bystanders.

You do understand that they teach protesters to do this, right? The value of a protest is rarely in the people standing around at the time who witness it, but the much broader audience who'll view images of it without the full context. Pushing the protest to the point of police taking physical action is pretty much required to accomplish that. It's not like this tactic hasn't been around for decades. And while this doesn't preclude police overreacting, I always take video like this with a grain of salt. A big honking grain.

I can't find anything that the cops did right here. At least not the brass. I'm normally as pro-cop as I can be, but this is disgraceful.

This.

Earlier this week, a kid was brutally arrested, and the department said that it was because he was trying to destroy barricades. But evidence from the crowd proved that wasn't the case, and the department revised its story, saying that they had gotten the facts mixed up.

And, frankly, what the cop did was illegal. Police are sanctioned to use force only in specific circumstances, and pepper spray can only be legally used in NY State for self defense--that, at least, was very clearly not the case, proved by this video. The cops around him didn't even expect it (and one of them apparently got hit with some of it).

Really, this quote sums up my feelings in general pretty well (from one of the victims)--'“I have respect for police officers, but that man assaulted me,” Ms. Elliott said. “Bizarrely. Stupidly. Needlessly.”'

Why? Are those receiving 'public assistance' (that includes, like, all of us that live in this country, but whatever) more deserving of police poking?

Anything happening before the video begins is irrelevant--by law, police have no right to use pepper spray outside of an immediate threat to themselves or others. If there's a 1-4 minutes gap between an unruly event and the actual spray (during which, the people weren't even struggling), then he's still lost all right to use the weapon.

If it was a case of a concealed weapon, then it makes absolutely no sense for the lieutenant to just walk away afterwards. He doesn't even bother to talk to the cops right there, who stay right there. If they had a weapon, his first impulse should be to have them restrained.

Furthermore, his use of the spray was clearly not intended to target one person, he sprays it in a wide arc, hitting at least 4 people in the crowd and at least 1 cop standing outside the barricade.

Frankly, it's hard to see how he could have been using the spray for anything but crowd control. And that is absolutely unacceptable.

I get that the videos all obviously want to paint the cop as the bad guy. But that doesn't mean the cop wasn't the bad guy. I've watched 7-10 different versions of the video (which capture the scene from many different angles for at least a minute ahead of the event), trying to pay close attention to what the victims were doing before hand. The answer is literally nothing criminal.

None of these videos were made with foreknowledge, and none of them show any signs of editing in any form. For there to be so many separate versions that confirm the testimonies of the victims, yet still dismiss their claims as being unlikely, is absurd. It would be nice for the police to provide their side of the story, sure, but the fact that the story they DID provide absolutely doesn't mesh with the videos available just casts more doubt on their side.

Until the day comes when you stand inside a riot barricade, facing a mob acting in an unpredictable and belligerent manner, your take on the subject is meaningless.

Right, because editing in ONE video discredits the 10 others you can find easily that have no signs whatsoever. What an amazing argument you've constructed.

And no, by law, this wasn't legal in NYC. They are only permitted to use pepper spray on someone who poses an immediate threat to themselves or someone else, to aid in an arrest of someone resisting, to stop someone from fleeing arrest, or to take control of an emotionally disturbed person.

Not only were these women making no attempt to escape their barricade, but at least one of the women hit was actually talking with the cop standing near her (who also got hit).

This use definitely did not fall within those parameters.

I was discrediting your assertion that "none of them show any signs of editing in any form." Not only that, but the three videos you've provided, are clips linked together are showing only pieces of the event. Then again, your obvious goal is to proclaim "POLICE ARE EVIL," and you're not interested in the truth at all. However, let's go this way: Where is a video of the whole event, from start to finish? One that isn't just clips, isn't edited in any way, and just a pure example of all the events that lead up to the break down? And by whole event, I mean when the first person showed up for the protest, to the end when the crowd dispersed. Yes, five situations that cause unruly crowds. Congratulations for your realization. Along the way, you've claimed you found ten completely different videos of the event, I'm guessing your new argument is that now eight of them are completely unedited. Like the first part of this post, are any of them completely and irrefutably unedited and complete, or are they clips who's purpose aren't to show 100% of what happened? That's the freakin' point. It isn't irrelevant.

Sorry, but I don't just automatically assume what people are saying is the truth.

Edited, Sep 28th 2011 3:14pm by lolgaxe

That video doesn't show us what was happening when that group was sprayed. I saw a guy who attempted to run into the street the cops had just cleared get arrested. Bunch of unruly folks yelling at the cops. Then another person flailing on the ground (no clue why from this video angle). Then more yelling and the idiot taking the video running the other way, then turning around and seeing the kids who were pepper sprayed crying.

Life lesson at worst. Hardly police brutality.

The video doesn't show much of the actual event, but it does confirm the earlier events in the other videos as well as set up the context in which they occurred. The other videos show the actual event (and this shows the immediate aftermath, as well as the cops' surprised reactions to what the lieutenant did).

I fail to see the logic there. They were penning these people in with fences on all side and then use pepper spray to... disperse the crowd?

Also, the people in the area he targeted hadn't been unruly at all--that was more towards the center/opposite end of the crowd. How does spraying the end actually obeying your commands help matters?

TBH it's really hard to see that from the video. It's looks like the cops are starting to have a tough time keeping the crowd under control.

They weren't penning them in. They were attempting to move the protesters out of the street and then down the street. You didn't notice that they started in one area and then the police gradually pushed the netting along? The ruckus started when people kept pushing against and then jumping over/around the netting. They were moving the whole group down the street.

The group "not doing anything" was pushing against the netting in the opposite direction the police were trying to get them to go. That's why they got sprayed.



They were at the part of the netting most in the street and most "up" the street. Go look at the videos again.

In all fairness, NYPD has surface to air missiles now. We probably shouldn't antagonize them.

ALSO: @ gbaji

Did you watch the same video I did?


Those people, regardless of what they may have been yelling were all well away from the barrier. The cop sprayed them because...what? Yelling at cops is no offence, last I heard.

I didn't see anyone inciting a riot and taunting police/being a public menace aren't acts of violence.

You should watch without your liberal douchebag glasses on.

Also, no violence does not equal peaceful.

Hey, Moe, next time you're at a Tea Party rally remind me to get a cop to tase you.


Y'know, for disorderly conduct.

For talking.

Only in my little pony rainbow land, sweetheart.