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#402 Feb 12 2013 at 4:48 PM Rating: Good
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ty, I see your point.
I was thinking the low damage would be a non crit, and the high woudl have a crit, but the numbers aren't working out that way.
I don't think its a guarenteed. crit.. but I'm not really sure.
and actually 1 point of base damage difference probably woudl about to a 12 point difference in damage in the case of foot kick.. which lines up w/ the low damage * 1.05 would be 12 less than the max damage I have....

looks like it is a 1 vit diffeence.

I added a few edit notes on previous post at same time as you responding... leaf dagger seems to be the only ranged ready move.

I'll need to double check INT for pet magical ws's... I just remember being very frustrated testing all the different stats and MAB was the only help in damage... and you could only get 680 damage on CW from Shasra... normal is 280 iirc. tp didn't affect damage for it either.

Edited, Feb 12th 2013 5:51pm by Xilk
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#403 Feb 12 2013 at 8:45 PM Rating: Good
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I went to Aby-Uleguerand and started collecting some samples vs EM bluffalo.
The frequency spike is not hard to see.

Hobs
GorefangHobs
Melee
104: 19
105: 17
+ 106: 26
107: 18
108: 20
109: 19
110: 4
111: 10
112: 8
113: 2
114: 6
115: 4
116: 6
117: 6
118: 6
119: 5
120: 8
121: 5
122: 5
123: 3
124: 4
125: 4
126: 4
127: 13
128: 4
129: 4
130: 9
131: 9
132: 5
133: 8
^ 135: 4
136: 15
137: 8
138: 5
139: 6
140: 6
141: 5
142: 7
143: 3
144: 3
145: 4
146: 5
147: 8
148: 6
149: 4
150: 5
151: 7
152: 3
153: 6
154: 5
155: 5
156: 6
157: 5
158: 2
159: 3
160: 5
161: 3
162: 5
163: 5
164: 4
165: 6
166: 6
167: 11
168: 4
170: 3
171: 11
172: 3
173: 8
174: 5
175: 7
176: 8
177: 7
178: 4
179: 1
180: 5
181: 9
182: 1
183: 2
184: 3
185: 2
Melee Crits
208: 1
209: 2
214: 2
215: 2
+ 216: 5
217: 1
218: 3
219: 1
220: 1
221: 2
223: 1
226: 2
227: 1
228: 3
229: 1
230: 2
231: 2
233: 2
234: 1
235: 3
236: 1
238: 1
239: 3
240: 1
241: 1
242: 1
243: 2
244: 1
^ 245: 3
246: 1
247: 1
249: 1
250: 1
251: 2
253: 2
254: 2
255: 1
256: 1
258: 1
261: 1
264: 1
265: 1
267: 2
270: 2
272: 1
273: 3
274: 2
275: 2
277: 1
280: 1
281: 3
283: 2
285: 2
286: 3
287: 3
290: 3
291: 1
295: 1
296: 1
300: 1


Raphie
CrudeRaphie
Melee
74: 1
75: 1
76: 2
77: 5
78: 3
79: 5
80: 3
81: 5
82: 5
83: 5
84: 2
85: 5
86: 5
87: 5
88: 6
89: 3
90: 7
91: 3
92: 4
93: 2
94: 3
95: 5
96: 1
97: 2
99: 7
100: 3
101: 5
102: 7
103: 6
104: 5
105: 3
106: 4
107: 20
^ 108: 19
+ 109: 26
110: 13
111: 24
112: 23
113: 1
114: 4
115: 9
116: 3
117: 2
118: 2
119: 5
120: 2
121: 1
122: 2
123: 4
124: 1
125: 3
126: 4
127: 1
128: 1
Melee Crits
+ 157: 1
+ 163: 1
+ 185: 1
+ 207: 1
+^ 216: 1
+ 228: 1
+ 230: 1
+ 232: 1
+ 235: 1


Lulush
LuckyLulush
Melee
81: 1
82: 2
83: 4
84: 3
85: 5
86: 2
87: 2
88: 5
89: 2
90: 3
91: 2
92: 2
93: 2
94: 4
95: 4
96: 1
97: 3
98: 2
100: 2
101: 2
102: 1
+ 103: 15
104: 4
^ 105: 14
106: 14
107: 14
108: 7
109: 1
110: 2
111: 3
112: 1
113: 1
114: 1
116: 3
117: 3
118: 3
119: 1
120: 3
121: 1
122: 2
124: 3
125: 4
126: 3
127: 1
128: 2
132: 1
133: 2
134: 1
135: 1
136: 1
Melee Crits
168: 1
175: 1
+ 177: 2
178: 1
180: 1
183: 1
+ 188: 2
+ 192: 2
196: 1
+ 200: 2
+ 204: 2
^ 205: 1
208: 1
210: 1
+ 220: 2
221: 1
225: 1
232: 1
+ 233: 2
236: 1
237: 1
243: 1
245: 1
246: 1
249: 1
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#404 Feb 13 2013 at 9:54 AM Rating: Good
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So, ignoring crit defense bonus / attack bonus because I'm not sure which pet has how much. 99 Bluffalo have -14% and I think WAR pets have +8%, so crit pDIFs should probably be divided by 0.86 for non-WARs and 0.94 for WARs:
Hobs : 104 base damage vs. EM Bluffalo; 1~1.778 pDIF (non-crit); 2~2.88 pDIF (crit without correction)
Crude: 107 base damage vs. EM Bluffalo; 0.69~1.196 pDIF (non-crit); 1.467~2.196 (crit without correction)
Lucky: 103 base damage vs. EM Bluffalo; 0.786~1.32 pDIF (non-crit); 1.631~2.417 (crit without correction)

So Crude < Lucky < Hobs for Attack, and Lucky < Hobs < Crude for base damage (including fSTR).
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#405 Feb 13 2013 at 10:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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Getting samples w/ varying str+ from atma should help lock in on exact str values for pets. though it probably won't work for hobs in this case. Adding more str to hobs will probably make it so we don't touch the 1.0 pdif level.

If I get varying attack+ on pets it be able to figure out the attack vs bluffalo, no?
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#406 Feb 13 2013 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
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We don't know how pDIF maps onto Attack for pets/Avatars, so you won't be able to tell their exact Attack. However, if you added 50 Attack to Crude and suddenly he had the same pDIF max/min as Lucky, then you could say that Lucky has 50 more Attack than Crude without the boost. You can quantify them relative to each other.
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#407 Feb 13 2013 at 10:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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I collected a sample of 500 hits using Hobs vs EM Bluffalo.
Using atma, I had +190 Attack.

melee 158/248
crit 264/356

I think this indicates that ratio still caps at 4.0 for pets and not just pdif capping at 4.0 after level correction. Meaning, you don't need level correction to get to 4.0pdf.. though it looks rather challenging to do so. I might find a different level 99 mob in abyssea to do it on. Most will have significantly lower def than Bluffalo. Still shoudl probably figure exact str values for whatever pet I try to get attack on first though. and I'll have to get def and vit for the level 99 versions of a new target mob.

I wonder if my lizard testing could be still useful if this is the case.


Edited, Feb 14th 2013 12:01am by Xilk
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#408 Feb 14 2013 at 10:00 AM Rating: Good
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If Hobs has a base damage of 104, then 4.0 pDIF is 416 damage.
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#409 Feb 14 2013 at 11:33 AM Rating: Good
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Byrthnoth wrote:
If Hobs has a base damage of 104, then 4.0 pDIF is 416 damage.


Yes, I know I didn't get up to 4.0. However I got above 2.0 for non crit hits. I got up to 2.38. Also even though there was some level correction, when I was working the bluffalo up to level 99, I got up to 432 damage on crit hits. This also indicates that I was very close to capping it for the slightly lower level bluffalo. I'm not sure what he min level is for them, I would guess level 90. but I'm confident that its not enough for level correction to give them a full 2.0 pdif.

Following the kuftal lizard testing, I thought perhaps ratio really caps at 2.0, but level correction can take pdif up to 4.0.
This makes me think that ratio can indeed go up to 4.0 still without the need for level correction. Assuming 4.0 is more likely than an arbitrary point between 2.0 and 4.0.

I would need to add alot more to ratio on hobs to be sure it can go up to 4.0. Like.. roll beast roll from corsair, and using both aymur and ferine cabasset +2 and dia 2/3 on target...
or I can choose another level 99 target w/ lower def.

Edited, Feb 14th 2013 12:36pm by Xilk

Mostly, I'm interested in repeating your methods to confirm base damage and str of celestial avatars.
Its not clear to me which samples and formulas you used.

Edited, Feb 14th 2013 3:44pm by Xilk

Edited, Feb 14th 2013 4:07pm by Xilk
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#410 Feb 14 2013 at 8:19 PM Rating: Good
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I've been collecting some data w/ varying str from EM bluffalo. I do not have them all yet, but so far it makes me think that the Base damage estimates Figster generated (assuming pets work much like players) is rather accurate. I think he floored it incorrectly though. iirc, you don't floor the inverse of a function which has a flooring in the original.
Here is a small table of data showing base damage of a few pets.

 
Pet		str+0	str+20	str+50	str+130 
Lucky Lulush	103	108	114	134 
Discreet Louise	106	110	117	134 
Crude Raphie	107	111	118	134 
Bugeyed Broncha	104	108	115	134 
Dipper Yuly	99	101	110	132 
 


... That is, making a table of possible D and STR value vs EM bluffalo, the most likely option for lulush is 108 D and 85 str, imo. There is another option of 109 base damage, but the level 0 tests support a 108 base damage. Options for ~96 damage and lower all work, but the str values get very very large. I don't believe those are correct though.
I believe the stat such as str, and dex will be similar to what player stats would be for different races and jobs, w/out a subjob. 73 is what I have for Yuly (taru thf at 99 would have 69 str) so far, and 93 for Raphie which is a bit higher than expected.

134 for a base damage cap confuses me a bit. I suspected it would match the caps seen vs level 0 mobs.. more like 128~131 (from level 0 mob tests), if they existed at all. I suspected there would not be a cap, however, my last sample showed the same upper limit for raphie as for lulush, louise, and broncha. The numbers should have been slightly higher. I estimated Raphie w/ +130 str to have a base damage of 137 if not capped.... also my lulush estimate would put 108 D and 205 str at 130 base damage, but this sample went up to 134.

Edit: Updated Table.


Edited, Feb 15th 2013 12:51pm by Xilk
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#411 Feb 15 2013 at 3:40 PM Rating: Good
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a tad more analysis...
I redid a few of the base damage values. I used bumblee data samples for the level 0 mob base damage estimates instead of the mix of bees/mandys
I also double checked the base damages to the Weapon rank formula to check if fSTR vs D rating balanced out right. This nudged a few D values by 1 or 2, particularly for raphie, louise, and Yuly.
With the updated D values, the str+0 and str+20 samples all line up w/ known fSTR formulas. but none of the str+50 samples match up. They model has them 1 point off for str+50 values, and they are close on the str+130 values also though 1 below and 2 above.. if it is really a cap, then the above values would not matter.

Doesn't look like I'm getting to bluffalo vit +100 afterall.

I"m wondering if I'm doing something a little wrong. Please see example:

107: 4
108: 4
109: 3
110: 6
111: 15
112: 18
+ 113: 25
^ 114: 12
115: 21
116: 3
117: 6
118: 2


This is part of a sample.
There is an obvious frequency spike. However, where would you say it starts? 111? or 110?
The reason I woudl doubt 111 is because it is not quite 1.05 range. that woudl include 116 which it appears this sample does not.

my one off problems might be due to a mistake like this.

I see this in many of my samples. There is a high peak in the frequency spike, but there may be slightly lower levels 1 point above and below it, which are still much higher than the further points.

Edited, Feb 15th 2013 6:29pm by Xilk
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#412 Feb 16 2013 at 3:58 AM Rating: Good
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Hmm... I guess in that situation I would say that you need more data, but the base damage is *probably* 110. It might be worth starring those values in the table. I get the relationship between +STR and D to be almost totally linear.

The first three values of Discreet Louise, Bugeyed Broncha, and Crude Raphie line up well for a lot of different VIT values. I cannot get the fourth to fit into the fSTR equation, but it is high by about 3-4 base damage, so it can't be capping. I do agree it is suspicious that many of them have 134 base damage in the +130 STR case, but if it is a cap then I think it's weird that they hit it so soon.

However, we have to keep in mind that these equations were developed at the level 75 cap using weapons that had fSTRs caps of about 19 max. +130 STR is way out of the range that they possibly could have tested, and would not have been relevant to player calculations at level 75. Perhaps fSTR has another slope change after dSTAT=100. This is still almost untestable with melee weapons. Apocalypse 99 should be able to test up to delta STR = 100, but even it can't test above that. I guess the justification for making a slope change that only monsters can see would basically be to enhance their ability to one-shot low level players. Even then, +130 STR is something like Kirin vs. a level 5 player at 75 (assuming his STR is similar to his INT). There's just no reason to have a dramatic change in the upper limits of an equation that will never be reached.

Lucky's values do work with the equations, and work for:
D108, 91 STR
D109, 87 STR
D110, 83 STR
D111, 79 STR
D112, 75 STR
D113, 71 STR
D114, 67 STR

Yuly is a new kind of strange. Its fSTR curve is finally very nonlinear, but I also can't seem to fit it.
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#413 Feb 16 2013 at 9:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Updated table. I got Yuly wrong on 1 sample, and Raphie's 134 sample is probably 135... that strange thing w/ the 1/2 peaks is the question on which value is more accurate.
 
Pet		str+0	str+20	str+30	str+50	str+130 
Lucky Lulush	103	108	111	114	134 
Discreet Louise	106	110	112	117	134 
Crude Raphie	107	111	113	118	135 
Bugeyed Broncha	104	108	111	115	134 
Dipper Yuly	99	101	106	110	129 


Edited, Feb 16th 2013 11:07am by Xilk
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#414 Feb 18 2013 at 8:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Xilk wrote:
melee 158/248
crit 264/356


Byrthnoth wrote:
If Hobs has a base damage of 104, then 4.0 pDIF is 416 damage.


Xilk wrote:
Yes, I know I didn't get up to 4.0. However I got above 2.0 for non crit hits. I got up to 2.38. Also even though there was some level correction, when I was working the bluffalo up to level 99, I got up to 432 damage on crit hits. This also indicates that I was very close to capping it for the slightly lower level bluffalo. I'm not sure what he min level is for them, I would guess level 90. but I'm confident that its not enough for level correction to give them a full 2.0 pdif.


I'm not seeing it. Your damage range for non-crits was 158 to 248, which is a pDif range of 1.519 to 2.385. 1.519 implies a cRatio of 1.96 (max); 2.385 implies a cRatio of 1.90 (min).

264 to 356 range for crits is 2.356 to 3.173 (after removing CAB), which is a 2.73 to 2.80 crit ratio.. a bit less than 1.0 more than the non-crit cRatio.

Xilk wrote:

107: 4
108: 4
109: 3
110: 6
111: 15
112: 18
+ 113: 25
^ 114: 12
115: 21
116: 3
117: 6
118: 2


This is part of a sample.
There is an obvious frequency spike. However, where would you say it starts? 111? or 110?
The reason I woudl doubt 111 is because it is not quite 1.05 range. that woudl include 116 which it appears this sample does not.


The spike looks clearly 111 to me.

Average non-spike frequency is 4. Therefore subtract 4 from all the spike candidates.

110: 2
111: 11
112: 14
113: 21
114: 8
115: 17
116: 0

A 5% spread starting at 110.0 would go to 115.5.
A 5% spread starting at 111.0 would go to 116.55.

You'd expect approximately 18% of the values to fall within each whole number increment, and 9% to fall in the last ~0.5 increment. For this sample set, that would be about 13 per whole number increment, and 6 on the final 0.5.

If base was 110, then we end up with an excess of values on 115: 17, where we expect 6.
If base was 111, then we end up with a deficit of values on 116: 0, where we expect 6.

The difference from expectation is closer for the 111 base, being off by 6 rather than 11. Combined with the severe lack of values on the 110 whole number increment (2, where we expect 13), and 111 becomes a near certain candidate.

That still leaves a bit of uncertainty about the deficiency of the last increment, however I've seen similar deficiencies in a number of other samples where we knew exactly what the base damage was, so the anomaly is not entirely inconsistant with what we know (though still strange in its own way).

#415 Mar 01 2013 at 6:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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Wasn't sure where to post this...

You know that glitch with Run Wild where you Leave your pet at the 4min 58sec mark and try to use Call Beast at the point where Run Wild's effect would normally force-Leave whatever pet you had out? Sorry if the wording is confusing, but if you try it out you'll find that you summon a "Ghost Pet" that you can't use any Pet commands on. It'll just follow you around... And if you use the glitch multiple times...

They just follow you around and get in the way, haha. But it's kinda fun to see (except for when you Leave a pet at the 5min-Run-Wild mark with intention of Calling a pet for usage... in that case, you're screwed.)
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#416 Mar 02 2013 at 11:47 AM Rating: Good
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I feel SE would **** many brix if they saw that.
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#417 Mar 28 2013 at 3:42 PM Rating: Good
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So how are BST pets doing damage-wise post-patch?

Also, are there any Ready moves that are boosted a lot by these changes? It's possible some of them had Attack Boosts in the past that were pretty much irrelevant because you were capping Ratio on everything, but now it might actually matter.

Edited, Mar 28th 2013 5:43pm by Byrthnoth
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#418 Apr 15 2013 at 11:03 PM Rating: Good
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Hey Xilk and Bookmarku,

Recently Windower v4 came out with a Lua interface and I've been making some addons for it. One of the addons (battlemod) analyzes the incoming "action packets" that are sent basically for any battle-related interaction between players/NPCs and reconstructs the chat log. Tonight Vlor pointed out to me that Gauge wasn't working with it. I don't really have time to fix that part, but I did take a brief look at the data before logging and think I know how I'll do it.

Anyway, I know that you guys were interested in how Gauge works and there's a mysterious number sent with the Gauge packet. When I investigated the mysterious number sent with the /check packet, I realized that it was actually level. I don't know what the one sent with the gauge packet is, but it's probably something. Each level of "Gauge" has its own unique message in the .dats (id=210~214 in dialog4.xml in the addons/libs/resources folder), so logically it wouldn't be related to that. It might be related to some kind of sub-state within each gauge level, or it could be something totally different like monster charm resistance.

Either way, I made an addon that will print out the mysterious "param" and the message id# to the console. Give it a whirl if you feel like gauging some stuff!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pgb4oxb7bctsu17/gauge.zip

My only data point with it was attempting to gauge a Bumblebee in West Sarutabaruta. I got message 214 ("you can totally charm this, brah!" of course) and the param value was 3. Bumblebees are thought to a level of -1, so 3 probably is not level. It is possible that it is monster CHR, for all I know, although that sounds low to me.
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#419 Apr 15 2013 at 11:21 PM Rating: Good
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Okay, I got interested myself and went out and tested it against a ladybug using whatever CHR gear I had about at the moment.

"param" is proportional to dCHR. So I (92 base CHR) got these results against a level 100 Resplendent Luckybug:
* Naked: 37 - Message 213 ("might be able to charm")
* Skadi body +1: 25 - Message 213 ("might be able to charm")
* Skadi body +1 and CHR+6 Anwig Salade: 19 - Message 214 ("should be able to charm")
* Skadi body +1, CHR+6 Anwig Salade, and Dance Shoes: 16 - Message 214 ("should be able to charm")
* Skadi body +1, CHR+6 Anwig Salade, Dance Shoes, and Balrahn's Ring: 16 - Message 214 ("should be able to charm")

So it doesn't seem to account for MAcc, just CHR.

Against low level Goblins and mid-level frogs (neither charmable) it was always 0. I don't know why it was 3 against very low level Bees and junk.



Edit:
Anyway, this isn't necessarily dCHR. It might be something like (Monster CHR - Player CHR +25), and flooring the value (to 3?) may note when charm rate caps. Needs more testing, preferably with some other way to determine CHR like BLU nukes.

Edited, Apr 16th 2013 1:37am by Byrthnoth
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#420 Apr 16 2013 at 3:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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If I may just take a moment to gush over how fantastic Battlemod is... *-*
There are so many reasons to love this addon.
Being able to filter pets, but still have my own damage shown... Filter out all the Kraken Club spam, but still see WS damage...
It's so wonderful. :D

It's great how your actions (like WS, Curing Waltz) pop up as they happen, instead of having a big ol' delay. And the colored names make it very easy to read, too.

OK, ANYWAY!

Thanks for the heads-up on the hidden Gauge packet, though I'm still trying to figure out how to activate your lil' gauge.lua...
Very interesting!
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#421 Apr 16 2013 at 7:37 PM Rating: Good
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You can load it by extracting it in your addon directory and typing "//lua l gauge" in game. It will write to your console.

It is more complicated than just dCHR. Check this out:

DNC/BST vs. level 103 Maca Maca (Black mandy)
94+65 CHR = 55 (159 CHR) - Chatoyant Staff
+60 CHR = 58 (154 CHR)
+40 CHR = 68 (134 CHR)
+20 CHR = 78 (114 CHR)
+6 CHR = 85 (100 CHR)
+5 CHR = 85 (99 CHR)
+0 CHR = 88 (94 CHR)

BST/WHM vs. level 103 Maca Maca
141 CHR = 54
134 CHR = 58
114 CHR = 68
94 CHR = 78

So it looks like they both have the same slope (2 CHR = -1 Param), but BST gets a 10 Param bonus. Remember that lower = better charm rate. All of these were "Difficult," I think. <50 seems to be "might be able"

BST/WHM vs. Lizards in Morimar
Level 103 Lizard = 59
Level 102 Lizard = 49
Assuming their stats didn't change much, this indicates that there's about a 10 "param" penalty per dLVL.
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#422 Apr 17 2013 at 4:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well, that is very handy...

So from trying this out, and having read your info as well, the Param indicates your likelihood of mischarming? And the difference between a Mandragora and a Lizard is what we'd expect, haha. Maybe it's even close to the actual mischarm percentage.

Down in Rala Waterways, BST/DNC:
Level 102 Depthswalker Crab, CHR 124, Param 52, message 212
Level 101 Chalybeous Slime, CHR 124, Param 70, message 212

So we're seeing the Resist Charm trait, ya? :)

Maybe you've already received reports, but Battlemod is telling me that level 101 mobs are EM, and level 103 mobs are T. Thanks! <3
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#423 Apr 17 2013 at 6:50 AM Rating: Good
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Well, 10 of that probably comes from the increase in level, but the other ~8 might be some kind of resist charm trait. If you look at my stuff, you'll notice that black mandies (resistant to charm) were about 10 above lizards (not resistant).
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#424 Apr 22 2013 at 9:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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I posted some more on this over on BG:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/108197-Random-Facts-Thread-Abilities?p=5687902&viewfull=1#post5687902

We need to determine the CHR of these monsters. This could be kind of a big break as far as MAcc testing goes, I guess!
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#425 Jul 08 2013 at 6:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's been a while since this thread has seen some love...

So - new BST jug mechanics as of the July 8th update? Here's some info from testing SlipperySilas (which hilariously is one of the many pets that can have its level raised above 99):

Beast Affinity 5/5, Call Beast w/ Augmented Monster Gloves +2 (so potentially max level 114?, assuming the cap on this pet has been set that high):

Equipped Brethren Axe (iLvl 113): MaxHP - 3454
Equipped Aalak' Axe +1 (iLvl 101): MaxHP - 3394
No Weapon: MaxHP - 3388
Re-equip Brethren Axe (iLvl 113): MaxHP - 3454

This is all done with the same pet, so your pet's level changes to reflect the current Main Hand weapon based on its Item Level. You can even test this while you're standing around switching between a high iLvl weapon and no weapon (HP% will drop from 100% down to 98%ish).

As far as the increase in MaxHP for SlipperySilas, the jump between levels seems very tiny compared to the level 99 and below:
Level        MaxHP 
 95          3214 
 96          3258 
 97          3300 
 98          3344 
 99          3388

So it was gaining about ~44 HP/level up to level 99. But the jump from 99 -> 101 saw an HP increase of only +6.

Edit: It's a similar situation for GooeyGerard.
No Weapon: MaxHP 4298
iLvl 101: MaxHP 4304
iLvl 113: MaxHP 4374

So since it's not akin to an "actual" increase in level, but merely the addition of stats, perhaps the jump from level 99 -> 101 meant gaining HP+6, STR+6, DEX+6, etc... And while there hasn't been enough testing at this point to say whether or not they're capping at "level 113" or "level 109" or what-have-you (and I don't have Kerehcatl, which I think is iLvl 119...) it seems like the max stat bonus is in the +70~80 range, similar to the Alternator. BUT we'll see if that holds true once more testing has been done. :)

Oh yeah, I also tested a couple of jug pets that had natural level caps of 99 (CrudeRaphie and such) and they don't break the 99 cap without the assistance of Beast Affinity merits, which makes 5/5 Beast Affinity basically mandatory, lawl.

Edited, Jul 8th 2013 10:56pm by Bookmarku
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#426 Jul 09 2013 at 5:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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More testing in progress today. :)

We actually have an excellent pet for testing whether or not the "Augmented" levels of Beast Affinity work in a post-100 environment. NurseryNazuna!

Nursery caps at level 86 naturally, and with 5/5 Beast Affinity caps at 96, and furthermore with augmented Monster Gloves +2 NurseryNazuna caps at 99 (should be level 101 if all levels of the Beast Affinity boost were accounted for...).
  Level     Max HP 
   99        6148

So similar to the tests from yesterday, we would expect an HP increase (and other stat+) in accordance to the Item Level bonus of the equipped weapon. However...
     Weapon             Nursery's Max HP 
      None                   6148 
  Aalak' Axe  (iLvl 100)     6148 
Aalak' Axe +1 (iLvl 101)     6148 
 Brethren Axe (iLvl 113)     6148

So... I'm not so sure that NurseryNazuna actually receives any of the post-100 stat bonuses, and also this calls into question whether the augmented Beast Affinity levels will have any impact on 100+ pets in general (so possibly any pet on the Version Update list will actually just cap at level 109, more testing to come...). CraftyClyvonne should be able to reach level 100 with Aalak' Axe or higher iLvl weapon - just need to craft some of these and check!

Edit: Ok, crafted some Cunning Brain Broth finally... CraftyClyvonne has a level 99 Max HP of 5526 (and his regular level cap is 90, so he should be either level 100 or level 105 depending on whether the augmented Monster Gloves +2 are functioning). As with the previous test, the pet is summoned while the Gloves +2 are equipped.
     Weapon             Crafty's Max HP 
      None                   5526 
  Aalak' Axe  (iLvl 100)     5526 
Aalak' Axe +1 (iLvl 101)     5534 
 Brethren Axe (iLvl 113)     5564

This seems to indicate that the augmented Beast Affinity merits ARE working beyond level 100. Crafty's Max HP shows a jump of +38 between iLvl 101 and iLvl 113 (which is an increase about half the size of Gooey's, possibly indicating a cut-off around iLvl 105, which fits the idea of the Monster Gloves +2 working). So it could simply be a case of Nursery being an exception in all of this - the Sheep's level was boosted from 96 -> 99 with the augmented Beast Affinity, but when it came time to calculate the additional iLvl jump, those final 2 levels get lost in the mix somehow.

Edit2: One thing of note from that last test is that the first stat boost doesn't seem to occur until you equip an iLvl 101+ Axe. Someone can feel free to correct me on this, but I'm pretty sure that MaxHP testing with Healing Salves is only accurate within +/- 1. It's possible that the first stat boost is only +1 (I don't know how likely that is, but this is still all very new...) and if Healing Salve is restoring 2763 that means it's either telling me the Max HP is 5526 / 2 or 5527 / 2 (and then rounded down). So I've got 5/5 Beast Affinity merits and I'm using Call Beast with Crafty again to try and summon a level 100 pet (which means no Monster Gloves +2 this time).

Gotta head to work for now, but will post results later... Also of note: Monster Gloves +2 are pretty essential to all of this, since if you use the NQ/+1 version and end up with a level 98 pet, none of the post-100 boosts will be effective, regardless of Beast Affinity merits and whatnot. This note only made sense in reference to the CraftyClyvonne test, so gonna scratch it out...

Edited, Jul 10th 2013 7:01pm by Bookmarku
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#427 Jul 10 2013 at 2:51 AM Rating: Good
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Seems as if the new pets have the same offense as the old pets, and just have protect V built in. They take roughly the same damage a player takes with protect/shell, instead of far more like they used to. At least snarl isn't worthless compared to damage taken- gear anymore.

A few things to note:

They took away wild carrot from the rabbit jug.

There appears to be no difference between the crafted crab and the plasm crab unless the difference is
A) so small you need to parse it
B) an invisible thing like TH, zanshin, or autoregen I
So don't waste 2000 ************* plasm per jug!

The crabs after Scissor Guard only take 50-80 damage a swing. If you can ever get them to hold any hate, that's pretty good for tanking.
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#428 Jul 10 2013 at 3:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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louispv wrote:
Seems as if the new pets have the same offense as the old pets, and just have protect V built in. They take roughly the same damage a player takes with protect/shell, instead of far more like they used to. At least snarl isn't worthless compared to damage taken- gear anymore.

A few things to note:

They took away wild carrot from the rabbit jug.

There appears to be no difference between the crafted crab and the plasm crab unless the difference is
A) so small you need to parse it
B) an invisible thing like TH, zanshin, or autoregen I
So don't waste 2000 mother@#%^ing plasm per jug!

The crabs after Scissor Guard only take 50-80 damage a swing. If you can ever get them to hold any hate, that's pretty good for tanking.


Sad to hear about the lack of Wild Carrot. :( Thanks for the report.

Someone posted on another forum that the Scissor Guard actually was a "-X% PDT"... anyone seen 1000 Needles testing on this yet?
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#429 Jul 10 2013 at 5:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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After spending a bunch of time calling CraftyClyvonne, and examining other level "100" pets, it seems that there is no HP+ bonus at the very least at that particular level. Are there other stat+ bonuses to be discovered? Probably! The STR test will be needed to uncover that (I need to read back to Xilk's notes on how to do that...), because level "100" otherwise seems like a dummy level.

Aside from NurseryNazuna, this "new" pet level system seems to work as predicted. I spent a few hours in Abyssea - Misareaux popping Healing Salves and focusing on the HP/level for the subset of Jug Pets who share the 4912 Max HP @ level 99 (PrestoJulio, SwiftSeighard, MailbusterCetas and LuckyLulush). They all have different level caps - 93, 94, 95, and 99, respectively - and for the purposes of testing, that means less Beast Affinity merit shifting for me. :) They share the same HP bonuses in the post-100 levels too. I'll post the "raw" info, but also a nice table. :)
MailbusterCetas:

No Monster Gloves +2
5/5 Beast Affinity
iLvl 113: MaxHP 4946 (level 105?)
iLvl 101: MaxHP 4918
iLvl 100: MaxHP 4912
No Weapon: MaxHP 4912

w/ Monster Gloves +2
5/5 Beast Affinity
iLvl 113: MaxHP 4980 (level 110?)

No Monster Gloves +2
4/5 Beast Affinity
iLvl 113: MaxHP 4932 (level 103)

w/ Monster Gloves +2
4/5 Beast Affinity
iLvl 113: MaxHP 4958 (level 107)

LuckyLulush:

No Monster Gloves +2
5/5 Beast Affinity
iLvl 113: MaxHP 4972 (level 109?)
iLvl 101: MaxHP 4918
iLvl 100: MaxHP 4912
No Weapon: MaxHP 4912

w/ Monster Gloves +2
5/5 Beast Affinity
iLvl 113: MaxHP 5000 (level 113?)

w/ Monster Gloves +2
4/5 Beast Affinity
iLvl 113: MaxHP 4986 (level 111)

SwiftSeighard:

No Monster Gloves +2
5/5 Beast Affinity
iLvl 113: MaxHP 4938 (level 104?)
iLvl 101: MaxHP 4918
iLvl 100: MaxHP 4912
No Weapon: MaxHP 4912

w/ Monster Gloves +2
5/5 Beast Affinity
iLvl 113: MaxHP 4972 (level 109?)

No Monster Gloves +2
4/5 Beast Affinity
iLvl 113: MaxHP 4924 (level 102)

w/ Monster Gloves +2
4/5 Beast Affinity
iLvl 113: MaxHP 4952 (level 106)

PrestoJulio:

No Monster Gloves +2
5/5 Beast Affinity
iLvl 113: MaxHP 4932 (level 103?)
iLvl 101: MaxHP 4918
iLvl 100: MaxHP 4912
No Weapon: MaxHP 4912

w/ Monster Gloves +2
5/5 Beast Affinity
iLvl 113: MaxHP 4966 (level 108?)

  Level     Max HP 
    99       4912 
   100       4912 
   101       4918 
   102       4924 
   103       4932 
   104       4938 
   105       4946 
   106       4952 
   107       4958 
   108       4966 
   109       4972 
   110       4980 
   111       4986 
   112      (4994) 
   113       5000

I had no means of spawning a level 112 Jug Pet based on the level caps available... But anyway, there's an estimated value there, and overall these pets gain ~6.75 HP per level. The highest iLvl that I have for BST is Brethren Axe (iLvl 113), but I think that Lulush and most other 99-cap pets will reach level 114 with max Beast Affinity and augmented Monster Gloves +2. Maybe if someone has Kerehcatl (or perhaps even the new Wildskeeper Axe) they could check? Level 114 LuckyLulush/BugeyedBroncha/TurbidToloi should have ~5006 HP (i.e. Healing Salve would restore 2503 HP).

July 17th Edit: Got Hunahpu (iLvl 115) and spawned a level 114 LucklyLulush (Healing Salve restored 2503, as predicted).

Edited, Jul 17th 2013 12:08am by Bookmarku
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#430 Jul 11 2013 at 4:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Did any of the 99-era jug pets have their natural level caps increased beyond 99?

I removed all Beast Affinity merits and got the following values (used Monster Gloves +2 and had Brethren Axe equipped):
                        Level 99 MaxHP      Experimental Value 
BloodclawShasra              5218                 5218 
BugeyedBroncha               4912                 4912 
CrudeRaphie                  4212                 4212 
DapperMac                    5542                 5542 
DipperYuly                   4092                 4092 
DiscreetLouise               4604                 4604 
FaithfulFalcorr              4968                 4968 
FatsoFargann                 4298                 4298 
FlowerpotMerle               5216                 5216 
GooeyGerard                  4298                 4298 
GorefangHobs                 5218                 5218 
LuckyLulush                  4912                 4912 
SlipperySilas                3388                 3388 
TurbidToloi                  4912                 4912

So no, all of the jug pets from the 99-era remain naturally capped at 99. Beast Affinity merits are mandatory to raise pets above level 100+; having Brethren Axe or any other high iLvl weapon is not enough. Both are needed in combination.

Since I had no Beast Affinity merits at the time, I also did a preliminary evaluation of the 2 new crab pets, SunburstMalfik and HeraldHenry.

SunburstMalfik
No Weapon- 5114 
iLvl 100 - 5114 
iLvl 101 - 5122 
iLvl 113 - 5142

HeraldHenry
No Weapon- 5416 
iLvl 100 - 5416 
iLvl 101 - 5422 
iLvl 113 - 5514

From a level cap standpoint, I'm assuming Henry will cap quite high, probably going all the way to iLvl 120 without the need of Beast Affinity merits. He seems to have ~300 HP more than his Sunburst counterpart.

Looking back at the Presto/Swift/Mailbuster/Lucky MaxHP data, I would hazard a guess that SubnurstMalfik is capping naturally at level 104 (gains about 7 HP/level, lower-than-expected HP value at iLvl 113, all signs point to capping well before then). If he becomes cheap to cook up, then he'll make a decent iLvl 119 pet assuming you have a high iLvl axe to pair up with him. Edit: Both crabs gain 6.4 TP/hit and deal Slashing-type damage, as you'd expect. Tested on Fired Urn.

Edit: DroopyDortwin
No Weapon- 5218 
iLvl 100 - 5218 
iLvl 101 - 5226 
iLvl 113 - 5240

As mentioned above by louispv, the new floppy-ear rabbit has no access to Wild Carrot, and Snow Cloud is replaced by Dust Cloud which deals earth-based damage and has additional effect: blind. Another defining feature of this new rabbit is that he shares the same HP modifier as BloodclawShasra/GorefangHobs... And based on his post-100 HP growth, appears to cap naturally at level 103 (meaning that with Beast Affinity 5/5 and augmented Monster Gloves +2 he'll be level 118 at the highest).

DroopyDortwin gains 6.4 TP/hit.

Edit2: ScissorlegXerin
No Weapon- 5526 
iLvl 100 - 5526 
iLvl 101 - 5534 
iLvl 113 - 5564

This pet also gains 6.4 TP/hit and has very noticeable increased movement speed, like his untamed brethren. ScissorlegXerin has 2 Ready moves, Sensilla Blades (1 charge, physical damage to enemies in a fan-shaped area [Edit: Slashing damage]) and Tegmina Buffet (2 charges, AoE damage and additional effect: Choke [Edit: Also Slashing damage]). He gains about ~7.5 HP/level and so that iLvl 113 MaxHP value is actually showing that he is naturally capped at level 105. I removed all Pet: Double Attack+ gear and watched for multi-attacks... he's definitely a WAR-type pet.

So as a wrap-up to this portion of the testing, here's the level cap info so far for the Post-100 Jug Pets:
                     Level Cap 
DroopyDortwin           103 
SunburstMalfik          104 
ScissorlegXerin         105 
HeraldHenry             113+


Edited, Jul 14th 2013 2:23pm by Bookmarku
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#431 Jul 15 2013 at 2:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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Bookmarku wrote:
Someone posted on another forum that the Scissor Guard actually was a "-X% PDT"... anyone seen 1000 Needles testing on this yet?


Just as a follow-up to this, HeraldHenry has no innate -PDT bonus and also his Scissor Guard doesn't seem to grant -PDT either. His attacks are slashing damage, as is his Big Scissors Ready move. So far it appears that the only bonuses we get for wasting plasma on this pet is that he's got a nice HP modifier (big deal) and a high level cap (since most BST only have Brethren/Hunahpu at best, this doesn't really matter much).

Hmm, {That's too bad.}
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#432 Jul 15 2013 at 2:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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I can't even believe the plasma jug. What a slap in the face.
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#433 Jul 15 2013 at 5:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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YUP. :( It would've been fine if the plasma cost was lower... Like a lot lower. Cause it's kind of a mascot, and neat in that regard, but otherwise Henry is just another boring crab pet.

-=-=-=-=-

Here's some new stuff to mull over, a bit of a work-in-progress. LuckyLulush vs. Wild Rabbit.
  Level     Melee Range       Critical Range 
    99        516~541            559~584 
   100        540~567            583~611 
   101        540~567            583~611 
   106        560~588            604~635 
   107        564~591            609~637 
   109        573~600            617~648 
   111        580~607            626~656 
   113        584~612            632~660 
   114        588~617            635~666

Edit: Added iLvl 109, 113, 114 for LuckyLulush.

FaithfulFalcorr vs. Perfidious Crab (level 103 Foret de Hennetiel crab - did these parses w/Pet:Accuracy+20 in gear):
  Level      Accuracy 
    99        69.1% 
   100        73.7% 
   101        78.3% 
   102        83.8% 
   103        89.5% 
   104         --- 
   105        94.7% 
   106        95.2%


Edited, Jul 20th 2013 7:16pm by Bookmarku
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#434 Jul 20 2013 at 5:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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FaithfulFalcorr vs. Fernfelling Chapuli (level 100 in Ceizak Battlegrounds):
  Level      Accuracy 
    99        76.2% 
   100        81.3% 
   101        85.8% 
   102        91.3%

This accuracy parse was a lot longer than the Perfidious Crab one, and shows even more clearly the +5% accuracy jumps.

I had hypothesized up in this post that the stat gain might be uniform alongside the HP increases (i.e. +6 HP/STR/DEX/Attack/Accuracy/Evasion/etc. per level). It's just an idea, but what might be happening here is our pets are gaining +6 accuracy and +6 DEX per level which would translate to a gain of +10 accuracy (assuming their DEX-to-accuracy conversion is Accuracy = floor(DEX*0.75) which would give a result of +4 per level). And where +10 accuracy = +5% hit rate, that's why the parses look the way that they do.

It's just an approximation, but it seems to hold true in practice thus far. There's a way to test VIT values in PvP, yes...? As for DEX, perhaps a look at crit rate. The fun never ends. @_@

Edit: Well, as a result of all this, here are the Max HP tests for all of the 99-cap pets listed in ascending order. It potentially throws a lil' wrench into my idea, haha. More exact testing on Pet stats will be needed for sure.
Pet Name        Lvl 99/100   Lvl 101    Lvl 114    Total HP+    HP/Level    HP Rank 
SlipperySilas      3388        3394       3458        70          5.00         F 
DipperYuly         4092        4098       4174        82          5.86         D 
CrudeRaphie        4212        4218       4294        82          5.86         D 
FatsoFargann       4298        4304       4380        82          5.86         D 
GooeyGerard        4298        4304       4380        82          5.86         D 
DiscreetLouise     4604        4610       4692        88          6.29         C 
BugeyedBroncha     4912        4918       5006        94          6.71         B 
LuckyLulush        4912        4918       5006        94          6.71         B 
TurbidToloi        4912        4918       5006        94          6.71         B 
FaithfulFalcorr    4968        4974       5068        100         7.14         A 
FlowerpotMerle     5216        5224       5310        94          6.71         B 
GorefangHobs       5218        5226       5318        100         7.14         A 
BloodclawShasra    5218        5226       5318        100         7.14         A 
DapperMac          5542        5550       5642        100         7.14         A

If FlowerpotMerle looks out of place, he's only listed so high because of his Max HP Boost traits (he'd only have 5030 Max HP at level 114 without those, ranked below Falcorr). And I've mentioned before, but will state again, that there is no HP+ from level 99 -> 100, so level 100 pets have the same Max HP as their level 99 counterparts.

I kinda forget what our Charged Whisker testing looked like, but this was the difference between iLvl 114 and iLvl 101 Charged Whiskers. Would that just be the effect of increased level? Or could the stat boosts be behind that?

As for how this impacts everything I said earlier... :( Well, it's possible that while the pet's HP rank modifier affects their post-99 HP boosts, maybe all pets use the baseline value (i.e. SlipperySilas's +5.00/level) for the addition of stats. For example, 5 * 14 levels of growth would be +70, which is in line with the bonus granted by Alternator/Dashavatara Sash...

Another Edit:... Well, if we're getting the same stat boosts that PUP and SMN got, then we probably are getting the Magic Attack Bonus as well? That's probably why the Charged Whisker damage is so high, and it should be an easy thing to test with atma. :)

Level 99 Bloodclaw Shasra's Charged Whisker Damage against level 80 Shore Spiders:
MAB+   DMG 
  0    309 
  2    315 
 20    370 
 30    401 
 50    463 
 70    525 
100    618

INT+   DMG 
  0    309 
 20    339 
 25    346 
 30    354 
 40    369 
 50    384 
 60    399 
 70    414

So +1 INT = +1.5 DMG and +1 MAB = +1% DMG. So if I have Atma of the Ultimate (MAB+50) and Minnikin Monstrosity (INT+50) I'll get (309 + (50 * 1.5))*1.5 = 576 DMG

Unlike the BLU version, adding DEX doesn't appear to alter the damage in any way.

Here are the Charged Whisker values for various iLvls against level 80 Shore Spiders:
Level   DMG 
 99     309 
 100    364 
 101    382 
 106    494 
 113    615 
 114    630

After playing with some numbers, I have a question... Does anyone know if the Forefront Animator or the Convocaller give MAB+30?
While BloodclawShasra has A Rank HP growth, using a B Rank INT growth (+6.71/level) gives a decent match-up for these iLvls, assuming the MAB+ works in some kind of tiered fashion. A couple of examples:

iLvl 106: +6.71 INT/level would mean an increase of ~47 INT from level 99 -> 106. If the MAB bonus is +30 with iLvl 106 items, then the Charged Whisker damage is = ((309 + (47 * 1.5))*1.3 = 493.35

iLvl 113: +6.71 INT/level would mean an increase of ~87 INT from level 99 -> 113. If the MAB bonus is +40 with iLvl 113 items, then the Charged Whisker damage is = ((309 + (87 * 1.5))*1.4 = 615.30

iLvl 114: +6.71 INT/level would mean an increase of ~94 INT from level 99 -> 114. If the MAB bonus remains the same as iLvl 113 items, then the Charged Whisker damage is = ((309 + (94 * 1.5))*1.4 = 630.00

While the idea of MAB tiers might seem terribly convenient, consider that there appears to be a large damage increase from level 99 -> 100, which I highly doubt is the result of INT alone (there appears to be ~15 MAB right off the bat).

iLvl 100: +6.71 INT gained from level 99 -> 100, and if the first MAB tier is +15, then Charged Whisker damage is = ((309 + (6 * 1.5))*1.15 = 365.70

All of these values fall within +/- 1 of the experimental damage numbers... I suppose adding more data from additional iLvls in-between could fill in the gaps and shed some light on the MAB+ amount. Thoughts?

Edited, Jul 21st 2013 9:37am by Bookmarku
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#435 Jul 21 2013 at 6:55 AM Rating: Good
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The charged whisker boost is due to the massive stat increase of your pets, which is not proportional to their stat gain thus far.

Also, were you keeping TP constant (300, I guess?) for those tests?

Edited, Jul 21st 2013 9:09am by Byrthnoth
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#436 Jul 21 2013 at 7:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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It was 300% TP, yes, though in our previous Charged Whisker testing the damage isn't affected by TP.
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#437 Jul 21 2013 at 5:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Meh, struggling to figure this out. ~_~ Please halp.
Level   DMG 
 99     309 
 100    364 
 101    382 
 102    405 
 103    426 
 104    --- 
 105    475 
 106    494 
 107    521 
 108    548 
 109    559 
 110    --- 
 111    583 
 112    --- 
 113    615 
 114    630

Here are all the iLvl data that I could manage (pretty sure that iLvl 104/110/112 are impossible to check at the moment based on the weapons available).

The Charged Whisker damage has a large jump at level 100, probably due to a certain amount of Magic Attack Bonus. And then things proceed smoothly for the next 8 levels, increasing by ~23 damage/level... but then at iLvl 109 the damage only goes up by ~11.7 per level (possibly indicating a halt in MAB+, might mean that only INT increases during these levels though unsure why). I can't tell if the next damage/MAB bump occurs at iLvl 112 or 113, but I think the overall MAB bonus increases to +40 around this point. And then it seems to only be an INT jump from 113 -> 114.

So: is there more to calculating this "magic" damage that hasn't been considered yet? Could there be other stats that are interfering here? If there are other tests that need to be done, that can be arranged! Also, still wondering what other stat info we can glean from Forefront Animator/Convocaller. Or even some Wyvern info - their breath damage got more powerful, yeah? MAB affects that? I think it's reasonable to assume that pet jobs all got a similar iLvl treatment, even if we enhance their levels through different means.
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#438 Jul 22 2013 at 5:26 AM Rating: Good
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Target's INT almost certainly affects the magic damage, which is probably why you see things like +27 damage between 107/108 and only +11 between 108 and 109.
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#439 Jul 22 2013 at 9:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Understood - in that case here are the Charged Whisker values against West Ronfaure Wild Rabbits:
Level   DMG 
 97     391 
 98     394 
 99     399 
 100    455 
 101    475 
 102    499 
 103    520 
 104    --- 
 105    572 
 106    592 
 107    621 
 108    644 
 109    673 
 110    --- 
 111    714 
 112    --- 
 113    749 
 114    765


Edited, Jul 22nd 2013 11:48pm by Bookmarku
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#440 Jul 22 2013 at 9:31 PM Rating: Good
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Bookmarku wrote:
Meh, struggling to figure this out. ~_~ Please halp.
Also, still wondering what other stat info we can glean from Forefront Animator/Convocaller. Or even some Wyvern info - their breath damage got more powerful, yeah? MAB affects that? I think it's reasonable to assume that pet jobs all got a similar iLvl treatment, even if we enhance their levels through different means.

MAB doesn't affect breaths. It max hp only, assuming it isn't resisted. They did get about 100 extra hp from ophidian trident, (more probably from upikirex) and then the 30% bonus hp from gaining exp increased because of the higher base hp, as well.

EDIT: Well it's current hp, but higher max= higher current, yada yada.

Edited, Jul 22nd 2013 11:33pm by louispv
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#441 Jul 23 2013 at 2:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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louispv wrote:
MAB doesn't affect breaths. It max hp only, assuming it isn't resisted. They did get about 100 extra hp from ophidian trident, (more probably from upikirex) and then the 30% bonus hp from gaining exp increased because of the higher base hp, as well.


Mah bad, thanks for the correction. :)

Seeing a similar Max HP boost is promising at least, as far as consistency across the Pet jobs.

Edit: Bought Forefront Animator... I've got 5/5 Automaton Magic Skill, 3/5 Optimization, my automaton's Magic Skill is 371/434. Nuked some Wild Rabbits in W. Ronfaure.
w/Deluxe Animator: Aero does 181 damage.
w/Forefront Animator: Aero does 262 damage.

Ok, maybe Forefront Animator has +40 MAB also... Hmmm.

Edited, Jul 24th 2013 6:48pm by Bookmarku
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#442 Jul 28 2013 at 1:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Started working on VIT testing using the method outlined in the BG Test Instruments thread...

iLvl 99 FlowerpotMerle: 2 dmg Crit at 93 STR (VIT = ???)
iLvl 100 FlowerpotMerle: 1~2 dmg Crit at 117 STR, but 0 dmg Crit at 116 STR (VIT = 120)
iLvl 101 FlowerpotMerle: 1~2 dmg Crit at 119 STR, but 0 dmg Crit at 118 STR (VIT = 122)
iLvl 106 FlowerpotMerle: 1~2 dmg Crit at 136 STR, but 0 dmg Crit at 135 STR (VIT = 139)

iLvl 99 FaithfulFalcorr: 7 dmg Crit at 93 STR (VIT = ???)
iLvl 100 FaithfulFalcorr: 1 dmg Crit at 99 STR, but 0 dmg Crit at 98 STR (VIT = 102)
iLvl 101 FaithfulFalcorr: 1~2 dmg Crit at 101 STR, but 0 dmg Crit at 100 STR (VIT = 104)
iLvl 106 FaithfulFalcorr: 1~2 dmg Crit at 118 STR, but 0 dmg Crit at 117 STR (VIT = 121)

iLvl 99 CrudeRaphie: 1 dmg Crit at 106 STR, but 0 dmg Crit at 105 STR (VIT = 109)
iLvl 100 CrudeRaphie: 1 dmg Crit at 134 STR, but 0 dmg Crit at 133 STR (VIT = 137)
iLvl 101 CrudeRaphie: 1 dmg Crit at 136 STR, but 0 dmg Crit at 135 STR (VIT = 139)
iLvl 106 CrudeRaphie: 1~2 dmg Crit at 153 STR, but 0 dmg Crit at 152 STR (VIT = 156)

iLvl 99 BloodclawShasra: 5~9 dmg Hit/Crit at 93 STR (VIT = ???)
iLvl 100 BloodclawShasra: 1~2 dmg Crit at 94 STR, but 0 dmg Crit at 93 STR (VIT = 97)
iLvl 101 BloodclawShasra: 1~2 dmg Crit at 96 STR, but 0 dmg Crit at 95 STR (VIT = 99)
iLvl 106 BloodclawShasra: 1~2 dmg Crit at 113 STR, but 0 dmg Crit at 112 STR (VIT = 116)

Only CrudeRaphie was a bad enough dude to have a VIT value at level 99 that I could check. I need more STR- gear to figure out the others...

I know that Weapon Skill damage and Magic damage are reduced in Conflict (I think I read that it's about a ~30% reduction, Edit: Ah, it's a reduction amount based on the amount of damage dealt.), but is melee damage left untouched? If melee damage is reduced, would that have much impact on a test like this? I tried using the Armor Shatterer test method but with only a BST and PUP at my disposal I couldn't lower the pet defense/raise the automaton attack to a point where it was uncapped damage (i.e. a multiple of 15).

Edit:
Pet Name          Lvl 99    Lvl 100    Lvl 101   Level 106     VIT Rank  Race Ranking 
SlipperySilas     58 VIT    86 VIT     88 VIT     103 VIT         F           E 
BloodclawShasra   69 VIT    97 VIT     99 VIT     116 VIT         D           E 
DipperYuly        69 VIT    97 VIT     99 VIT     116 VIT         D           E 
FatsoFargann      69 VIT    97 VIT     99 VIT     116 VIT         D           E 
BugeyedBroncha    74 VIT    102 VIT    104 VIT    121 VIT         D           D 
DiscreetLouise    74 VIT    102 VIT    104 VIT    121 VIT         D           D 
DroopyDortwin     74 VIT    102 VIT    104 VIT    121 VIT         D           D 
FaithfulFalcorr   74 VIT    102 VIT    104 VIT    121 VIT         D           D 
GooeyGerard       74 VIT    102 VIT    104 VIT    121 VIT         D           D 
GorefangHobs      74 VIT    102 VIT    104 VIT    121 VIT         D           D 
LuckyLulush       74 VIT    102 VIT    104 VIT    121 VIT         D           D 
ScissorlegXerin   74 VIT    102 VIT    104 VIT    121 VIT         D           D 
TurbidToloi       74 VIT    102 VIT    104 VIT    121 VIT         D           D 
DapperMac         87 VIT    115 VIT    117 VIT    134 VIT         A           E 
FlowerpotMerle    92 VIT    120 VIT    122 VIT    139 VIT         A           D 
SunburstMalfik    98 VIT    126 VIT    128 VIT    145 VIT         A           C 
CrudeRaphie       109 VIT   137 VIT    139 VIT    156 VIT         A           A

So there are a number of VIT ranks at play, and as expected the MNKs and PLDs are ranked highest. Using the stat determination formula and considering that jug pets are subjobless, I've listed the likely Job Rank and Race Rank for VIT that applies. Using this illustrates the race/job combination of each pet, which is more or less what you'd expect. SlipperySilas uses the Taru/Mithra VIT modifier (E Rank) and the BLM or SMN VIT modifier (F Rank). Bloodclaw/Fatso are Taru/Mithra WARs, Dapper is a Taru/Mithra MNK, FlowerpotMerle is a Hume MNK, Sunburst Malfik is an Elvaan PLD, and Crude Raphie is a Galka PLD. Edit: Forgot to mention DipperYuly would be a Taru/Mithra THF (Race Rank E and Job Rank D) and FaithfulFalcorr would be a Hume THF (Race Rank D and Job Rank D).

And in addition to all this, I did a more thorough examination of LuckyLulush to see more clearly what is happening as its iLvl increases.
Level   VIT 
  99     74 
 100    102 
 101    104 
 102    107 
 103    110 
 105    118 
 106    121 
 113    144 
 114    151

Using this method for testing Pet VIT, we get a clear picture of the iLvl influence that has been seen for Automatons (i.e. 99 -> 106 is +47 and 99 -> 113 is +70), and it would seem that the next level-up from 113 -> 114 is another +7, so it'll be exciting to see what the overall stat boost will be when the iLvl 119 Animator/SMN Ammo are released.

Edited, Aug 2nd 2013 3:32pm by Bookmarku
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#443 Jul 29 2013 at 12:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Today's test results for INT and Magic Defense:

I used my 99COR/DNC against my mule's BST to gather some potentially useful information on INT values.
The Leaden Salute formula is DMG = 2 * ( AGI - EnemyINT ) + [ fTP * ( 77 + [ .83 * [ .3 * AGI ] ] ) ]. Think we can use this to solve for EnemyINT? In addition, the PvP damage formula is Ballista dmg = Do x (1 - (Do/4000)), where Do = Original Damage.

COR Equipment setup:
______ / ______ / Stoertbeker / Midrium Bullet
Skadi's Visor +1 / Houyi's Gorget / Suppanomimi / Moonshade Earring w/Acc+4 and Regain +1
Skadi's Cuirie +1 / Thaumas Gloves / Paguroidea Ring / Roller's Ring
Letalis Mantle / Goading Belt / Thurandaut Tights / Thaumas Nails

Here's the Quick Draw info:
DMG = (2 * (Gun base DMG + bullet base DMG + Corsair's Tricorne bonus)) * (1 + (MAB / 100)) * (Elemental Staff bonus) * (Day/Weather Bonus)
Pet Name                     Quick Draw DMG and Elements 
GooeyGerard        227 Fire/Earth/Wind/Ice/Thunder Shot, 117 Water Shot 
BugeyedBroncha     262 Fire/Earth/Water/Wind/Ice/Thunder Shot 
SunburstMalfik     285 Fire/Earth/Wind/Ice/Thunder, 134 Water Shot 
BloodclawShasra    311 Fire/Earth/Water/Wind/Ice/Thunder Shot 
DapperMac          311 Fire/Earth/Wind/Ice/Thunder Shot, 162 Water Shot 
DiscreetLouise     311 Fire/Earth/Wind/Ice/Thunder Shot, 162 Water Shot 
DroopyDortwin      311 Fire/Earth/Water/Wind/Ice/Thunder Shot 
FatsoFargann       311 Fire/Wind/Thunder Shot, 162 Water Shot 
FlowerpotMerle     311 Fire/Earth/Water/Wind/Ice/Thunder Shot 
LuckyLulush        311 Fire/Earth/Water/Wind/Ice/Thunder Shot 
FaithfulFalcorr    341 Fire/Earth/Water/Wind/Ice/Thunder Shot 
ScissorlegXerin    341 Fire/Earth/Wind/Ice/Thunder Shot, 311 Water Shot 
DipperYuly         379 Fire/Earth/Water/Ice/Thunder Shot, 181 and 103 Wind Shots 
GorefangHobs       379 Fire/Earth/Water/Wind/Ice/Thunder Shot 
TurbidToloi        379 Fire/Earth/Wind/Ice/Thunder Shot, 25 Water Shot 
CrudeRaphie        426 Fire/Wind/Ice Shot, 227 Earth/Water/Thunder Shot 
SlipperySilas      462 Fire/Earth/Wind/Ice/Thunder Shot, 117 and 29 Water Shots

Still working out these Quick Draw values, but so far it looks like this (base Quick Draw damage should be ~340 with 55 DMG Gun + 115 DMG bullet):
Conflict Quick Draw      Actual Quick Draw       Special Damage Multiplier 
        227                     242                       -74/256 
        262                     283                       -43/256 
        285                     311                       -22/256 
        311                     341                        ------ 
        341                     379                       +29/256 
        379                     426                       +64/256 
        426                     462                       +91/256 
        462                     534                       +145/256

Not really sure how to differentiate in practice whether it actually is MDB or some other special damage adjustment, but this method made more sense to me, rather than using -MDB to explain the increased DT. We all know that Quick Draw ignores +/-MDT and whatnot, so not really sure how else to explain this.

And then, here is the Leaden Salute data, all performed with 300% TP and total AGI = 89+69 = 158:
Level 99 Pet      Leaden Salute      Actual Damage      Corrected w/ SDM   INT 
DiscreetLouise         346                383                 768           50 
GooeyGerard            468                542                 758           55 
DapperMac              475                552                 736           66 
BugeyedBroncha         532                632                 736           66 
SlipperySilas          576                698                 ---           --  
SunburstMalfik         576                698                 758           55 
BloodclawShasra        608                748                 748           60 
FatsoFargann           608                748                 748           60 
DroopyDortwin          614                758                 758           55 
LuckyLulush            614                758                 758           55 
FlowerpotMerle         620                768                 768           50 
FaithfulFalcorr        644                808                 726           71 
ScissorlegXerin        665                844                 758           55 
DipperYuly             708                920                 736           66 
TurbidToloi            723                948                 758           55 
GorefangHobs           729                960                 768           50 
CrudeRaphie            776               1054                 778           45

DiscreetLouise is unique, but we know that there's a -50% Darkness damage in effect, so the corrected Leaden Salute value becomes 768. Has anyone heard of DapperMac resisting darkness as well? I think the only way to explain his actual Leaden Salute damage is with a -25% Darkness damage property. I'm honestly not sure yet what to think of SlipperySilas' damage taken, considering he displays a huge SDM+ from the Quick Draw tests, but takes a seemingly normal amount from Leaden Salute. Could be another case of Darkness DMG-... We'll see how the INT values play out.

Forgive the inelegance, but I think the Leaden Salute damage formula can be rearranged like so:
DMG = 2*(AGI-EnemyINT)+[fTP*(77+[.83*[.3*AGI]])]
EnemyINT = AGI - [(DMG - [fTP*(77+[.83*[.3*AGI]])]) / 2]

Therefore, we get:
DMG = 726, INT = 71
DMG = 736, INT = 66
DMG = 748, INT = 60
DMG = 758, INT = 55
DMG = 768, INT = 50
DMG = 778, INT = 45

And finally, since BloodclawShasra's INT is of particular interest to me, I also did an iLvl comparison of Leaden Salute damage (all at 300% TP and 158 AGI):
Level     Leaden Salute DMG    Actual LS DMG    INT 
  99             608                748          60 
 100             576                699          85 
 101             574                695          87 
 102             570                690          89 
 103             567                684          92 
 105             557                670          99 
 106             554                665         102

It's slightly off, because instead of seeing +47 INT from 99 -> 106, my result is +42. Boo. Well, it's close at least. ; ;

Edited, Jul 30th 2013 6:09am by Bookmarku
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#444 Jul 30 2013 at 9:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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D'oh! And now I know why my numbers aren't matching up with what I expected... I just realized that I completely forgot about Stout Servant! ~_~

I was looking back at Xilk's BLM Nuke testing and saw that little note at the bottom: "pssst... remember stout servant. " Haha, whoops.

Ok, going over the numbers again...
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#445 Aug 01 2013 at 7:49 AM Rating: Good
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Question how high can Nursery Nazuna go at one point peeps said capped at 86 now I see stuff that shows 99 can that baby hit the 115??? I will be testing soon I hope when I get time to play but was wondering if this super cheap pet has a place especially love the sleep.
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#446 Aug 01 2013 at 1:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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kenshynOnShiva wrote:
Question how high can Nursery Nazuna go at one point peeps said capped at 86 now I see stuff that shows 99 can that baby hit the 115??? I will be testing soon I hope when I get time to play but was wondering if this super cheap pet has a place especially love the sleep.


I hate to be the bearer of bad news then, haha. Nursery is still stuck with a very low level cap (86) and while it was listed in the Version Update notes as "having the possibility of being greater than level 99" with Beast Affinity and Monster Gloves +2, the level cap testing done here shows that she is actually the one exception (for some reason the augmented Beast Affinity boost only carries her to level 99 cap, and not beyond).

Still useful for older content where you need some sleepga, and is still useful on, say, Ceizak Battlegrounds Colonization/Lair Reives if you're soloing. Presto Julio can reach a maximum of iLvl 108 if you want slightly higher melee dmg from your pet (also, Soporific is only 1 charge vs Sheep Song's 2).

Maybe a new Sheep pet will be released in the future to fill the gap. Cheers. :)
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#447 Aug 01 2013 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
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Bookmarku wrote:
kenshynOnShiva wrote:
Question how high can Nursery Nazuna go at one point peeps said capped at 86 now I see stuff that shows 99 can that baby hit the 115??? I will be testing soon I hope when I get time to play but was wondering if this super cheap pet has a place especially love the sleep.


I hate to be the bearer of bad news then, haha. Nursery is still stuck with a very low level cap (86) and while it was listed in the Version Update notes as "having the possibility of being greater than level 99" with Beast Affinity and Monster Gloves +2, the level cap testing done here shows that she is actually the one exception (for some reason the augmented Beast Affinity boost only carries her to level 99 cap, and not beyond).

Still useful for older content where you need some sleepga, and is still useful on, say, Ceizak Battlegrounds Colonization/Lair Reives if you're soloing. Presto Julio can reach a maximum of iLvl 108 if you want slightly higher melee dmg from your pet (also, Soporific is only 1 charge vs Sheep Song's 2).

Maybe a new Sheep pet will be released in the future to fill the gap. Cheers. :)


Thanks I was wondering what was up I stopped using her a while back cause of the 86 cap and thought maybe a change to her I missed. Being over 100 cooking making pets is pretty easy I wish all the ingredients was as easy to get as fishing up ruddu seema is tho.
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#448 Aug 01 2013 at 9:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thanks for the work you guys do by the way. It's appreciated, even from a BST-currently-in-retirement

Edited, Aug 1st 2013 8:12pm by Olorinus
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#449 Aug 01 2013 at 9:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Bookmarku wrote:

Pet Name          Lvl 99    Lvl 100    Lvl 101   Level 106     VIT Rank  Race Ranking 
SlipperySilas     58 VIT    86 VIT     88 VIT     103 VIT         F           E 
BloodclawShasra   69 VIT    97 VIT     99 VIT     116 VIT         D           E 
DipperYuly        69 VIT    97 VIT     99 VIT     116 VIT         D           E 
FatsoFargann      69 VIT    97 VIT     99 VIT     116 VIT         D           E 
BugeyedBroncha    74 VIT    102 VIT    104 VIT    121 VIT         D           D 
DiscreetLouise    74 VIT    102 VIT    104 VIT    121 VIT         D           D 
DroopyDortwin     74 VIT    102 VIT    104 VIT    121 VIT         D           D 
FaithfulFalcorr   74 VIT    102 VIT    104 VIT    121 VIT         D           D 
GooeyGerard       74 VIT    102 VIT    104 VIT    121 VIT         D           D 
GorefangHobs      74 VIT    102 VIT    104 VIT    121 VIT         D           D 
LuckyLulush       74 VIT    102 VIT    104 VIT    121 VIT         D           D 
ScissorlegXerin   74 VIT    102 VIT    104 VIT    121 VIT         D           D 
TurbidToloi       74 VIT    102 VIT    104 VIT    121 VIT         D           D 
DapperMac         87 VIT    115 VIT    117 VIT    134 VIT         A           E 
FlowerpotMerle    92 VIT    120 VIT    122 VIT    139 VIT         A           D 
SunburstMalfik    98 VIT    126 VIT    128 VIT    145 VIT         A           C 
CrudeRaphie       109 VIT   137 VIT    139 VIT    156 VIT         A           A

So there are a number of VIT ranks at play, and as expected the MNKs and PLDs are ranked highest. Using the stat determination formula and considering that jug pets are subjobless, I've listed the likely Job Rank and Race Rank for VIT that applies. Using this illustrates the race/job combination of each pet, which is more or less what you'd expect. SlipperySilas uses the Taru/Mithra VIT modifier (E Rank) and the BLM or SMN VIT modifier (F Rank). Bloodclaw/Fatso are Taru/Mithra WARs, Dapper is a Taru/Mithra MNK, FlowerpotMerle is a Hume MNK, Sunburst Malfik is an Elvaan PLD, and Crude Raphie is a Galka PLD. Edit: Forgot to mention DipperYuly would be a Taru/Mithra THF (Race Rank E and Job Rank D) and FaithfulFalcorr would be a Hume THF (Race Rank D and Job Rank D).


I made an update to the Jug Pet VIT post, which includes some job/stat determination. As far as I can tell, this is how a number of monster's stats can be determined, by figuring out their job/subjob combination and using the stat formula found here. Based on the Leaden Salute/Quick Draw testing, I think it's safe to eliminate the possibility of Bloodclaw/Dipper/Fatso being Tarutaru... Dapper is probably a Mithra MNK and Silas is most likely a Tarutaru.

Pet Name         Lvl 99 Value  Race Rank    Job Rank    Job Combination 
SunburstMalfik      47 INT         F           G          Elvaan PLD 
CrudeRaphie         53 INT         E           G          Galka PLD 
DapperMac           58 INT         D           G          Mithra MNK 
FlowerpotMerle      58 INT         D           G           Hume MNK 
BloodclawShasra     63 INT         D           F          Mithra WAR 
BugeyedBroncha      63 INT         D           F           Hume WAR 
DiscreetLouise      63 INT         D           F           Hume WAR 
DroopyDortwin       63 INT         D           F           Hume WAR 
FatsoFargann        63 INT         D           F          Mithra WAR 
GooeyGerard         63 INT         D           F           Hume WAR 
GorefangHobs        63 INT         D           F           Hume WAR 
LuckyLulush         63 INT         D           F           Hume WAR 
ScissorlegXerin     63 INT         D           F           Hume WAR 
TurbidToloi         63 INT         D           F           Hume WAR 
DipperYuly          80 INT         D           C          Mithra THF 
FaithfulFalcorr     80 INT         D           C           Hume THF 
SlipperySilas       108 INT        A           A           Taru BLM

STAT   Hume WAR    Mithra WAR    Hume MNK    Mithra MNK    Elvaan PLD    Galka PLD 
STR       91          86            80          75             96           91 
DEX       80          97            85          102            64           69 
VIT       74          69            91          86             98           108 
AGI       80          91            63          74             47           53 
INT       63          63            58          58             47           53 
MND       63          58            74          69             91           80 
CHR       69          58            69          58             80           69

STAT   Hume THF    Mithra THF    Taru BLM 
STR       74          69            52 
DEX       91          108           80 
VIT       74          69            58 
AGI       85          96            86 
INT       80          80            108 
MND       58          53            64 
CHR       58          47            74

What's the test for determining a monster's MND and CHR?

Edited, Aug 2nd 2013 3:46pm by Bookmarku
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#450 Aug 07 2013 at 2:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Since the August 5th update, the /check messages change based on your average Item Level across all gear that you're wearing. If the game calculates that you're Level 115, does that Easy Prey Fernfelling Chapuli (actually level 100) stay charmed for a longer period of time? Here's the test! :)

Level 99 BST/DNC, no Charm+ or iLvl equipment - but, CHR+17 in gear. Total CHR = 106
Fernfelling Chapuli, level 100, /checks as Tough.
Theoretical Charm Duration = floor(1.25 * CHR + 150) = floor(1.25 * [106] + 150) = 282 seconds
dLevel correction where dLevel = -1 gives a Charm Duration of 188 seconds (which is 3min 8sec).
Experimental Charm Duration = 3min 9sec

Next up, equipped the following:
Hunahpu (iLvl 115) + Brethren Axe (iLvl 113) + Karieyh Moufles/Brayettes/Sollerets (all iLvl 100).

Fernfelling Chapuli, level 100, /checks as Easy Prey.
Experimental Charm Duration = 3min 9sec

So, allowing +/- 1 second for lag/human reflexes on the stop watch, it's clear that boosting iLvl (and thereby altering the /check message) has no impact on Charm Duration. The dLevel component is calculated using the actual mob level and the actual player's level.
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#451 Aug 11 2013 at 7:35 AM Rating: Good
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I will check this when back online, but is xp not affected as well then?
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