Just to give you a direction on the head, apparently the BLU version adds to the fTP of Weapon Skills when used against an appropriate targets. We probably just need to do 300TP Fireballs with and without it on to see the difference.
As a control to make sure it's working, we can enhance our pet's monster correlation effect using this Atma. If we see a damage difference with the Atma, but not with the hat, then the hat isn't working or we don't have the conditions for it quite right.
Played around with Nursery Nazuna and BST JAs while trying to figure out their enmity. Used Familiar and went around hitting L0 sh*t with him. Crit range was 511-533, normal range was 474-494.
I had now way to lower his HP, so I had no way to know his level, I think. 5/5 BA merits. Anyway, point is that these are slightly higher (About base damage+2) than your numbers. Either I got a high level one and you got a low level one, or Familiar affects pet STR. My only pre-Familiar crit was 522, which shows nothing.
Nevermind. Repeated the test and there's no difference in the spread before and after Familiar.
Played around with Nursery Nazuna and BST JAs while trying to figure out their enmity. Used Familiar and went around hitting L0 sh*t with him. Crit range was 511-533, normal range was 474-494.
I had now way to lower his HP, so I had no way to know his level, I think. 5/5 BA merits. Anyway, point is that these are slightly higher (About base damage+2) than your numbers. Either I got a high level one and you got a low level one, or Familiar affects pet STR. My only pre-Familiar crit was 522, which shows nothing.
I'm guessing you have a level 87~88 jug. My base of 116 for nazuna is a level 86 jug. that is a confirmed level. my other base for nazuna is 120, which I believe is a level 90 jug. I did not use familiar at all.
You are right in the middle of this range. All the WAR type jugs are pretty close at these levels. What was your sample size?
Pretty high in my second test. I can extend the ranges to: 472~495 and 510~534
Because pets use monster pDIF, I'm wondering if they their fSTR mechanisms are also common with monsters. I don't actually remember seeing any serious research into the effects of vitality on monster damage. Everyone always just assumes that it works the same as Player fSTR applied backwards.
I might try to test this by back-tanking with Counterstance and varying levels of VIT tomorrow. That should let Abyssea mobs cap pDIF on me. If we see the same high ratio between STR bonus and base damage that we see for pets, perhaps it would give us a new avenue to investigate pet damage with. It would also likely re-"vitalize" Vitality as a defensive stat. Lools. Anyway, I'm sorry for the pun.
I was reading on SE forums and someone brought up Treasure Hunter on Yuly again. I've been waiting till the level cap goes up to test this, and I thought I would be repeating myself on that thread... but something else occured to me that I'm surprised no one mentioned before as a testing method. Its really simple...
you can probably test TH w/ Yuly by going out duo w/ a thf. make sure thf has all treasure hunter+ gear off.
go out and test to make sure you can spawn a level 90 Yuly.
Let Yuly attack a mob a few times then call Yuly off and let the thf hit it until they can proc the treasure hunter level dialogue. See what level it pops at. As I understand, it should only proc when the th level is increased and it will only incrase 1 at a time after the basic level has been established. So if thf has no th+ gear on, then the message should show 1 level higher that what Yuly was able to set.
This way you can test if level 90 Yuly sets it at 3, or if it can increase it above this the same way a thf player can. Also it will establish what level of TH Yuly has.
I might do this if I can find a thf friend willing to spend the time, but I thought I would share the idea w/ the community incase someone else gets to it before me... which I think is likely.
I'm no expert on any of this Treasure Hunter business, but would this work:
Do the test in Abyssea as BST w/ 90 DipperYuly + Atma of Dread so you'd have potentially TH4 and bring your THF friend with no TH gear. If THF procs level 4, Dipper only has TH2 natively. But if he were to proc level 5, then Dipper had TH3+1. Yes?
Went to Misareaux Coast[A] as 90BST/DNC, called DipperYuly and verified that it was level 90 (Healing Salve cured 1810 HP). I used Ducal Guard, Mounted Champion, and Dread. 90THF friend came along - no TH gear - using RR, GH, C&D atmas and we fought spiders at conflux 00. We recreated the result multiple times. The first TH proc that showed up was always Treasure Hunter level 5. So DipperYuly would have Treasure Hunter level 3 at 90.
Judging by SE's new "directions for BST adjustments," it looks like there are some Familiar changes in store. Now, SE generally stacks whatever mechanics they're going to add on top of the mechanics that are already there, so it would benefit us to try and understand how Familiar actually works before the next patch. If we try after the next patch, we'll likely be trying to figure out two mechanisms at once.
So, it's my understanding that it likely does not: * Increase pet STR * Increase pet level (at least past EM)
Which leaves: * Increased Attack? * Increased duration? * Some kind of Pet Haste? (from wiki, though it has never seemed that way to me) * +10% HP
Has anyone heard anything else? Any other suspicions? Any way to test the above list?
Which leaves: * Increased Attack? * Increased duration? * Some kind of Pet Haste? (from wiki, though it has never seemed that way to me) * +10% HP
Has anyone heard anything else? Any other suspicions? Any way to test the above list?
I believe the increase in duration has been noted on FFXIclopedia. As for pet Haste, I cannot seem to find my post on it from a while back, but from what I recall, we definitely did not see a 25% increase in attack speed between rounds (by using Timestamp to note a pet's delay before and after Familiar and comparing it to the theoretical delay).
Unfortunately, Timestamp only allowed me to calculate the delay in seconds, so I guessed the decisecond value based on the distribution of values noted; it's possible there might be some minute Haste value that I'm unable to confirm. You can confirm or deny the +10% HP part with Abyssea items.
EDIT: Found the thread; there's several posts, including my own, on the topic.
+10% HP and 30 min duration to charm are the only confirmed points that I know of. everything else is guesswork.
You can test the strenth by using a familiar'd broncha and/or shasra on level 0 mobs. Just like my base + fstr tests. IF there were an increase in STR it would show there. However, I'm pretty sure there is not.
we cannot test attack yet because we do not have known attack for any of the jugs. you could test def by finding a known attack on a mob and parsing the hits the pet takes.
I think familiar only does the things we've already confirmed.
Thanks guys. That's pretty much what I had assumed, but I wanted confirmation.
Also, I think our understanding of Primal Rend might be a little lacking. I was out testing the Killer Effect of Pizza on Crabs in Abyssea - Misareaux and I swapped Twilight Helm, no pants, and 2x Dark Ring for Beast Trousers, Ferine Cabasset +2, and no rings. I was getting a base damage difference between the two cases, which indicates there is likely a second (weak) stat mod besides CHR (+12 in both cases).
For comparison, it was "All stats +12" vs. "CHR+12, DEX+8"
And Sagheera is busy upgrading my AF Trousers to AF+1, so I should be able to test if that increases the killer potency some time around next week.
Does Dipper have to be alive when mob dies for TH to have an effect on the drops? Reason I ask is because I started a Simurgh solo with Yuli and he didn't do that well so I let him die and called the Lizard for Infrasonics. I finished the fight with the Lizard (didn't get the drop) and was wondering if the TH from Yuli did any good since he was dead before the fight was even half way through.
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FFXI: Beastman Lvl90 jobs: BST|BLM|RDM Working on next: WHM|DNC|THF
Does Dipper have to be alive when mob dies for TH to have an effect on the drops? Reason I ask is because I started a Simurgh solo with Yuli and he didn't do that well so I let him die and called the Lizard for Infrasonics. I finished the fight with the Lizard (didn't get the drop) and was wondering if the TH from Yuli did any good since he was dead before the fight was even half way through.
Shouldn't have to be alive, as treasure hunter is a debuff. Only should the monster lose aggro and go unclaimed will it matter.
This information is subject to change, but here's the preliminary pet data from the test server... :D
I did the testing in 2 waves, once at level 92 and again at level 95, spawning as many different leveled pets as I had in my inventory (most, but not all, are available from the GM Moogle also). So here's what happened pet-wise, post-90:
I don't have any DiscreetLouise (never see'em on the AH) and I couldn't get a 95 FlowerpotMerle or SwiftSeighard to spawn, though it might still be uncapped (sadly, Vermihumus/Mellow Bird Broth aren't available from the GM Moogle). And so the couerl pet is capped at 90 and PrestoJulio is capped at 93! But thankfully some of our favorite pets are still uncapped...
When I spawned a level 95 LuckyLulush I did a lil' Wild Carrot test too: 254% TP Wild Carrot - 564 HP healed 255% TP Wild Carrot - 582 HP healed 300% TP Wild Carrot - 582 HP healed
So there was no increase in Fencer potency for our pets as far as I know, still the ol' 45 TP bonus.
EDIT: Speaking of Fencer, did some testing to see if we got the next tier by using Cloudsplitter on Beach Bunnies in Cape Terrigan on Windsday/Iceday. It seems we have the next level with 40 TP bonus, but I'm not sure yet at what level we gain it (possibly 91? Gonna test later.)
Thanx for the testing. I only finally got the test client setup earlier today, and didn't have time for testing.
I'm a bit irritated at the level caps for jugs. They are just enough that you need BA merits to keep them effective... I really don't want to spare BA merits for them, and I really don't want to go w/out the variety either.
I'm going to try retesting a few pets attack and str for level 95 jugs. (especially for run wild) Clyvonne capping at 90 is actually a great tool for testing. I wish there were a few more items we could get from the moogle... I don't have my monster gloves still.. (I know, no excuse), and I don't have magian fire axes....
Its interesting that we are getting higher tiers of fencer so quickly. I rather like it. If we got tier 3 at level 94, like you say, I'd guess tier 2 was probably at level 87.
Falkirk and I teamed up doing some testing today. It was cool to run into each other on test server and actually be able to collaborate directly. Especially since we are used to being on different servers. The hp tables above were very helpful to speed us along.
HObs 6.4 tp/hit level 93 base STR 123 Gerard 6.4 tp/hit level 95 base str 124
Also we checked alot of possibilities for run wild. WE eliminated several possible effects. We can confirm that it does NOT increase STR or attack at all. It does not give pets a TP bonus it does NOT give regain it does NOT raise pet max HP it does NOT provide any extra damage reduction
Falkirk did notice that it give pet a very potent regen. We could not make a good estimate of how much, but roughly in the 50hp/tic range.
Our only theorizing is that it is meant to revive/prolong your pet tank... say, if you are going to lose it and 5 minutes and a strong regen would save it. It may also improve def or eva.
HOwever, I have to reverse my opinion regarding this ja. Unless it greatly improves crit rate (I want parser to test a few more items) which I did not notice, then I really don't think this is a worthwhile ja.
I was really looking forward to this, expecting it to be a big dd buff. pet burning itself out... but it seems its tanking oriented. I'm sorry, but we have plenty of wonderful tanking abilities. WE can already keep our pets alive thru the most strenuous tanking situations w/ eta biscuits and dawn mulsum.
IF it is tanking oriented, as the regen seems to imply, it is really terrible. we will lose all the hate we've built up on the pet when it dies. There is no point to this ja, unless you want to burn up jugs instead of pet food. Its really not what I expected or wanted. it doesn't seem to improve dd at all. If its for tanking, it might improve def, eva, or enmity also, but we don't really need those things. WE need a good zerging ja.
Don't take this as an "I told you so post", I used to be an eternal optimist when it came to SE updates, but afer many years of consistent dissapointment, not that they never added anthing of use over the last decade, I realized they never quite turn out the way you hope them to based on their descriptons. This one seemed to have a big old fail sign on it from the get go, though. They have just never been in touch with how bst actually play and want to play the job.
Did a manual parse of the en-slow effect for GooeyGerard. Sample size was 600 hits. The effect doesn't overwrite itself, so only counted hits up until the proc, then killed the mob and began counting on a fresh mob, etc.
96/600 hits had additional effect: slow, so approximately a 1/6 chance of activating.
Edit: Haha, also just confirmed that GooeyGerard lasts for 90 minutes. :P
Uncapped jug pet. I was only able to snag 2 off the AH, and I spawned a level 88 and 90 pet:
With 0 Beast Affinity Merits -
Pet # Healing Salve I amount Maximum HP
1 1977 HP 3954 HP (<-- Level 88)
2 2036 HP 4072 HP (<-- Level 90)
I can confirm the level 89 max HP at a later date, but it should be close to ~4013.
Hohoho, found some Seedbed Soil and spawned a level 89 DiscreetLouise: probably due to rounding, healing salve gave 2006 HP, so 4012 max HP. Close enough!
Edit: So now that we're 95BSTs, here's some additional level cap testing from the main servers to confirm some of the previous findings...
It was feeling like bad luck at first, but after spawning 20+ SwiftSeighards, all level 94, I'm starting to think it could be capped. The odds of that are really, really bad with Monster Gloves and no other pet has griefed me so bad. D: Unless someone has used healing salve for more than 2298, sans BA merits, I'm gonna say it's capped at 94.
bump - this thread is super useful, don't want it to get lost.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.
The four new pets in their current state are lovingly named Apkallu, Adamantoise, Hippogryph and Toad. :3
The ready moves for the first 3 are all "."s at the moment, Apkallu has 2, Adamantoise has 3, Hippogryph has 4. I think they made a mistake on the Toad's level cap (wasn't it supposed to be capped at 40?) - he's got at least 3000 HP when called as a 96BST and was holding his own against EP mobs in Abyssea.
Workin' out the new level caps right now, will edit here shortly. One thing that I confirmed right away is SwiftSeighard was definitely capped at 94.
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.
So at this point, AudaciousAnna and MailbusterCetas are capped at 95. And I'm not 100% sure about LuckyLulush, but it hasn't spawned at level 99 in a dozen attempts, though I'll keep trying... Edit: I managed to spawn a level 99 LL after many, many tries, haha. He exists!
Edit: Added in FlowerpotMerle, Apkallu, and Toad to the MaxHP table. FM and Apkallu got HP Boost traits at level 96 of approximately 30 HP. The Toad pet is currently uncapped on the test server, and it seems to have the lowest HP modifier of all the post-76 pets.
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.
Also, since the majority of our pets are Warriors, I wanted to test and see if they got Fencer V (WAR gets a new Fencer tier every 13 levels starting from level 45. Fencer IV was at 84, so I assumed there would be a new tier at 97).
Level 96 Lucky Lulush Wild Carrots
254% - 571 HP
255% - 590 HP <- (45% TP bonus, so Fencer IV)
300% - 590 HP
Level 97 Lucky Lulush Wild Carrots
249% - 579 HP
250% - 598 HP <- (50% TP bonus, so Fencer V)
300% - 598 HP
Edit: Just as a point of interest, they changed the in-game help text for Wild Carrot so it correctly displays "Requires 2 charges", instead of what we see on the main servers.
Busaman the Mighty wrote: Man I barely remember life before wow. It was hard living in caves for shelter and fending off wild beasts with only a sharpened stick. Men women and children all dying from simple infections Food was scarce, sometimes all we had to eat would be a fallen member of the tribe.
Those were dark days indeed. Thank Raptor Jesus for delivering us from our sins with his only son, the World Of Warcraft
Workin' out the new level caps right now, will edit here shortly. One thing that I confirmed right away is SwiftSeighard was definitely capped at 94.
Yeah, SwiftSeighard is capped at 94. With 0 Beast Affinity merits, and BST99, healing salve restores 2298 HP - so 4596 Max HP, which is the reported amount for a level 94 SS.
So as of the test server update (assuming nothing changes), capped pets are: NurseryNazuna - 86 CraftyClyvonne - 90 PrestoJulio - 93 SwiftSeighard - 94 AudaciousAnna - 95 MailbusterCetas - 95
Thanks guys. That's pretty much what I had assumed, but I wanted confirmation.
Also, I think our understanding of Primal Rend might be a little lacking. I was out testing the Killer Effect of Pizza on Crabs in Abyssea - Misareaux and I swapped Twilight Helm, no pants, and 2x Dark Ring for Beast Trousers, Ferine Cabasset +2, and no rings. I was getting a base damage difference between the two cases, which indicates there is likely a second (weak) stat mod besides CHR (+12 in both cases).
For comparison, it was "All stats +12" vs. "CHR+12, DEX+8"
And Sagheera is busy upgrading my AF Trousers to AF+1, so I should be able to test if that increases the killer potency some time around next week.
Pretty simple explaination.
As i recall, if your WS is Physical, you are affected by fSTR. If it's magical, it's affected by fINT.
So basicly, depending on physical or magical, every 4 points of STR or INT equate to +1 base weapon damage during WS.
In this case it's magical (Light Elemental Damage for Primal Rend), thus +12 INT would give you +3 base weapon damage for your WS.
That is ofcourse depending on your TP amount being at the same value each and every time (goes from 4.00 at 100% to i think 4.75 at 300%) and if there are any random fluxuations (not sure if this WS has those, but possibly also affected by the usual % randomizer).
Still no Ready moves in the new update, so dunno about Charge costs. SlipperySilas is still uncapped at the moment, but presumably not for long.
Edit: Didn't notice it before, but the colors of a couple of the broth items are different. The Crude Raphie jug is blue and the Dapper Mac jug is white, as opposed to the usual brown.
Edit2: We all knew it, but here it is: "The Sensenmann casts Aspir. 16 MP drained from CrudeRaphie."
So basically there is an uncapped pet of some form for every mob family except for aquans, making beast affinity pointless. :/ BST tier two merits are so :sadface:
Kinda funny going from all those years of CC as the go to jug to having no aquan jug and two birds...
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Sorry Kupo...there are no real adventurers left in Vana Diel.
I don't know if I'd count BA as worthless before spending some time looking at special abilities. For instance, the highest level jug I'm aware of with an AoE sleep is Presto Julio, capped at 93. That's been noted as being very useful in some mission fights, so unless one of the new jugs also has something for that role, some merits there could come in handy.
I'm not sure if there's any other jugs with special abilities or traits that stand out in that way though.
Well the apkallu should have yawn, but if the enemies aren't facing the penguin it won't work.
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Quote:
Maybe if we wait long enough, he'll tell us about how he walked barefoot uphill through snow both ways in Uleregand and defeated the evil Snoll Tzar with nothing but a stack of pebbles. Men were men back then. Mithra were men, too, but they don't talk about that.
Mellowy is awesome, now.
Quote:
I'm sorry. My hoovercraft is full of Summoners. As soon as I claim a thread, they just flood out and cover the whole place. Slippery suckers, those Summoners.
I'm hoping for some ideas to explain this (things to check/reproduce): I had 1061 damage from spiral spin on a nightmare funguar. Usually I was seeing damage around 500. I think I am definitely getting a bonus from mob family correlation... I think I'll need to test this more. I've never see this kind of damage from yuly. I did have the ferine head on and ferine gloves one and some pet attack + from mirke wardecors... but that's all...
I was dinking around w/ WS and did fantod on falcorr... well the next melee hit was over 1000 instead of the typical 270.
I wasn't using rr. so I decided to switch to my more usual dd setup: RR, Apocalypze, Savior... I can probably swap savior for soemthing else
Oh yeah, I'm just killing amoeban in misareux.. so w/ rr, the first hit after fantod did 930. The next hit crit, and did 1800.
hurray for pet haste! I want a triple attack w/ crits before fantod runs out...
Edit: Yep, there is no trouble getting a triple attack off before fantod runs out. I'll see if I can do it w/out pet haste gear. Also... I'm not sure how much it adjusts.. I just had a single hit of 3k w/ fantod up.
I think fantod is 4x damage for the duration of it.
AT most you will only be able to get a triple attack into the duration. It won't last more than one normal attack round. Maybe I'll try stacking the haste atma on w/ gear to see if I can get 2 non-triple attack hits before it wears... maybe...
I took Falcorr back to saruta (since I already have baseline of normal attacks) to see how much fantod hits will do.
They are all right above 2k. when it did a crit, it was 2286 This is in line with the expected crit damage bonus.
Falcorr's crit's can actually vary quite a bit. W/ my main atma setup in abyssea, I was ranging from 300~750 damage for a crit hit. This would explain why after boost, it could be between 900 and 3k for the hit. if it is 4x 750.. then it would be 3k, and 4x a non-crit hit would be at least around 900.
I need parses to be more sure, but I'm confident enough for now to say that Fantod is 4x damage for next attack round, whether single hit for triple attack. This could produce some seriously big numbers.
I can't figure a tp mod for fantod. I don't notice any difference between 100 tp and 300...
Edited, Dec 1st 2011 11:37am by Xilk
Also on level 0 mobs, back heel does 1500 damage whether its on 100 tp or 300. It seems to be in line w/ other single target physical ready moves. It will probalby be about the same damage as a good crit hit against similiarly leveled mobs.
Tortoise stomp: -25% def Damage is normal (comparable to other single hit ready moves i.e. nothing special)
I used the gnat method to test (pandemic nip). I had 378 def before it was reflected to me. 283 def after.
Hardened shell: I've not tested yet, I want a team w/ a blu in ballista to voracious trunk it to see how much a boost it is... if same as blu version it will be +100%.
Aqua Breath:
100% HP - 1100 Damage 75% HP - 938 Damage 50% HP - 741 Damage 21% HP - 501 Damage
HP + Atma nor familiar Did not improve damage. However w/ Max HP+ atma (about 9600 HP) it did not drop from 1100 damage until I was around 40% hp. It appears the damage is always determined by how much current hp to base max hp for the level, and capped at 1100. I would guess that tp only effect magic acc for this one... if at all.
DapperMac:
Beak Lunge: has a very significant knockback Wing Slap: is another stun
The damage on both are completely unimpressive. However, it does seem DapperMac has in-built storetp 5 trait (+30 store tp) when stacked w/ spur on ferine Ocreae +2 its +52 store tp total. (7.3 tp/hit). And he hits alot... and quickly.
I don't see the point in the store tp however, when the tp moves are so poor.
Oh yeah, I also tested in Zi'tah: Dapper Mac is blunt damage (as expected) Raphie and Falcorr are both slashing (also not surprising)
Tortoise stomp: -25% def Damage is normal (comparable to other single hit ready moves i.e. nothing special)
I used the gnat method to test (pandemic nip). I had 378 def before it was reflected to me. 283 def after.
Hardened shell: I've not tested yet, I want a team w/ a blu in ballista to voracious trunk it to see how much a boost it is... if same as blu version it will be +100%.
Aqua Breath:
100% HP - 1100 Damage 75% HP - 938 Damage 50% HP - 741 Damage 21% HP - 501 Damage
HP + Atma nor familiar Did not improve damage. However w/ Max HP+ atma (about 9600 HP) it did not drop from 1100 damage until I was around 40% hp. It appears the damage is always determined by how much current hp to base max hp for the level, and capped at 1100. I would guess that tp only effect magic acc for this one... if at all.
DapperMac:
Beak Lunge: has a very significant knockback Wing Slap: is another stun
The damage on both are completely unimpressive. However, it does seem DapperMac has in-built storetp 5 trait (+30 store tp) when stacked w/ spur on ferine Ocreae +2 its +52 store tp total. (7.3 tp/hit). And he hits alot... and quickly.
I don't see the point in the store tp however, when the tp moves are so poor.
Oh yeah, I also tested in Zi'tah: Dapper Mac is blunt damage (as expected) Raphie and Falcorr are both slashing (also not surprising)
Edited, Dec 3rd 2011 4:36am by Xilk
I'm new to bst, just hit 71, but I can tell you that it was a glorious day when they gave Ramuh stun. Maybe the store tp is so you can spam Wing Slap, which I think would make it the best stunning jug pet. I can't seem to find out how many charges it is, hopefully only one.
Any pets with stun that will gain tp faster than this one? Something with double attack or whatever?
For Hippogryphs, Fantod approximately triples the damage of the next attack round. So Fantod -> Triple Attack is probably going to do more damage than any other TP move we have access to. That combination is also a really easy way to eat dirt against EP Hippogryphs, I found <_<;
BST finished getting all their tier 2 Killer effects by 99, but I haven't added the specifics to bgwiki yet.
