Jugs go afk when the bst goes AFK. Jugs dont have autotarget on. Jugs are tied to the halfassedness of the master.
Bst beating sh*tty DDs does not make bst better than good DDs. They are unrelated. Milich said a single line that riled everyone up and a bunch of people got overly defensive. That statement is, was, and will continue to be: Bst does not have as much potential damage as other job classes in buffed up situations.
Pointing out that (Insert job) beats sh*tty bad gear/sj/afk players does not refute this. Pets having static damage doesnt refute this. It was a simple statement that:In a 'standard' situation (which standard has been described as haste/buffs) Bst falls behind other DDs that make better use of those buffs.
I am 'with' milich because his statement is still true no matter how much BST POWA feeling there is on the bst boards. He made a true statement which was mutated into BST SUXX by extrapolating bst isnt the BEST to mean it must SUCK! I am not backing milich out of ego nor because I worship the ground he walks on. His statement is still entirely true and i will continue to support it until it is proven false by any rational means.
Posting parses and saying you beat sh*tty DDs doesnt change the fact that an 80% haste DD has a 50% boost over a 70% no hasso DD across the board, ignoring the other DD oriented JAs/Traits/Weapon/gear options that most jobs also have over bst. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT BST SUXX. It means what it means. Nothing more and nothing less. Bst isnt the best when DDs are buffed up. And there is nothing wrong with that, but dont claim that bst is soemthing that it isnt. This thread sounds like a convo with a pup in my LS (and EXCELLENT pup. Best i know) but he exaggerates his abilities to 'prove' to everyone that pup isnt lol only to look silly when it blows up in his face. Jobs have limitations. Claiming bst can out DD an 80% DD (Of EQUAL CALUBUR gear/player) is delusional.
Firstly stop trying to make out that people are overly defensive of BST. No one here comes across as some sort of BST zealot. I don't even have BST on my taru character and my galka is only 66 BST I think. In my order of jobs it's about the 6th or 7th job I play.
People are pointing out that some of the stuff you guys are saying is not accurate and they are right.
You dismissed the scenario of sh*tty DD who TP in strength rings and sub NIN pointlessly etc and said you weren't interested in that scenario. (A scenario which accounts for about 50% of the people who play this game).
Yet you try and foist the scenario which makes YOUR point (the scenario of elite high level 2 handed DD who have the best gear and always party with 2 BRDs and mages who keep them permanently hasted) - a scenario which probably applies to about 10% (if that) of the total parties in the game.
Now, why should we reject a scenario that involves half the people playing at any time in this game and only view DD according to a niche scenario that exists in a tiny percentage of cases?
That's not reasonable - your point is valid only in a minority of cases and on paper - that's it.
In the real world, it doesn't really apply most of the time.
Aside from that, as I mentioned before, the figures and calculations you use to prove the superiority of your 2 hander DD gods are almost always wrong (in the real world).
For example you just said: an 80% haste DD has a 50% boost over a 70% no hasso DD across the board
What you are saying here (I presume) is that a DD who has Double March and the spell Haste and who subs SAM and uses Hasso beats a BST who has no Hasso and whose pet cannot get buffs.
On PAPER this looks like a sensible and obvious thing to say.
But what happens in the real world?
Let's break that down.
Firstly, you are presuming that a BRD or COR or mage hastes and buffs from the first second of the party to the very last giving the DD his buffs for 100% of the party's duration.
This is nonsense.
In the real world, there are often large gaps in the party when you're not getting your buffs.
Often the RDM is bored and watching TV and only remembers to haste you if you nag. Often the BRDs concentrate so hard on chain pulling they neglect their buff duty and you often find yourself with less than 4 songs. Or maybe the mage keeps sitting too close to the party and half the time you get ballad. Often periodically one or both of the BRDs go AFK because they know no one kicks a BRD. Etc etc.
On paper you say things like an '80% DD' assuming he's that 100% of the time but actually it's likely to only be getting each of those buffs maybe 50% to 75% of the time, certainly not 100%.
Then you demand that we assume all DD have access to Hasso which BST won't get.
That's simply not realistic.
My taru main is a DRG/SAM. I make my own parties usually. If I search for other DRG I get something like 8 DRG seeking - I'm lucky if ONE of those is subbing SAM - the other 7 will all be subbing NIN. I'm not exaggerating when I say it must be something like 90% of endgame DRG seem to sub NIN and if one of the good DD in my party gets a DRG rep it's always a DRG/NIN. DRG/NIN don't get Hasso.
The vast majority of WAR sub NIN. WAR/NIN don't get Hasso. THe vast majority of DRK sub NIN. DRK/NIN don't get Hasso. MNK don't sub SAM so don't get Hasso. Etc etc.
And the one job that always gets Hasso (SAM), 7 out of 10 times has crappy, awful gear as he's a bandwagon SAM that doesn't really have a clue.
Never mind the fact that even if you have a good DD/SAM he may be full timing Seigan not Hasso.
So when you say things like: an 80% haste DD has a 50% boost over a 70% no hasso DD across the board
it simply does not apply to the vast majority of people in parties going on in this game at any time.
There are other little things too like because a BST shares his hate with his pet he's likely to die less. Often in a party if you have a good 2 handed DD he will die from time to time and lose his pizza then resort to curry buns or crab sushi. Just little extra things like that.
I don't want to make this discussion too abstract by talking about Chaos Theory but the general point is that the real world is unpredictable and bears very little resemblance to calculations on a bit of paper for a specific perfect niche setup, especially when you're trying to push your own point of view and are not able to look at the whole picture.