Except that 5-hit build with Redemption lets you WS in just non-removables and Brutal/Rajas, while the same setup on Caladbolg barely
makes a 6-hit with all
of it left on for WS.
Please continue thinking that Redemption 5-hit isn't worth it just because Caladbolg 6-hit isn't and that such an advantage is irrelevant and should be ignored, etc. Pick and choose what you like to make your choice of weapon look less like it could have been drawn out of a hat and would make as much a difference.
Do you see this? You just blew off a perfectly fine 5-hit build on Redemption to favor Caladbolg. I'm not trying to insult you at this point, I'm honestly trying to point out what a farce your argument is here. You're doing your damndest
to discredit Redemption being even just equal to Caladbolg by throwing out the largest advantage it has.
This makes you exactly
like one of those other Torc tards. Stop it.
Damage over time in TP phase is irrelevant of build unless you start looking too hard a WS saturation. Never WSing at all makes as much difference as WSing every time 100 rolls around on TP phase damage, it doesn't matter if there's four hits between your WS or six. At the end of the day it's just damage and delay.
How about I do that WS saturation math for you too, before you jump on that as your next "BUTB UUBUTBUTBUTBUT CALADBOLG STILL HAS...":
And you've definitely
conceded to a 7-hit on Caladbolg, while anyone worth their salt with a Redemption wouldn't pass up 5-hitting it.
Basic cycle time = ( Delay * Hitbuild-1) * ( 1 - Haste% ) + 120
Redemption takes 78.8% as long per cycle, or WSes 26.9% faster, take your pick.
Redemption takes 82.0% as long, or WSes 21.9% faster.
So even going from zero to capped haste makes @#%^ all for difference, WS saturation isn't a big deal
Wanna know something interesting? I had Penitence 5-hit pegged as better than Redemption 6-hit back during level 80 cap using this same math.
Return1, I would much rather resort to napkin math than this asinine assumption that the superior WS trumps all other advantages. I learned to dig out and expose this bullsh*t in the SAM era. This will be done to death every time someone mentions Torcleaver, which with the bandwagoneering of DRK on the horizon I think is going to be quite too much a chore, so I'll get it out of the way now.
Redemption and Caladbolg are for the most part dead equal outside of Abyssea, all things (possible to be) considered.
You know what I seem to hear a lot lately, purely by implication of course? "It's not 100% better, so it sucks." Be it in reference to jobs or weapons or any comparison where tenths of a percentage point of performance are in play.
You know what Redemption can do that Caladbolg can't? Throw Guillotine for a free and accurate Silence or during Souleater without taking too much of a damage hit or even breaking ODD stride. I think that's all the advantage I need, no matter how situational. Caladbolg is a weapon for BNS meatheads who consider nothing but damage but think themselves too 'exotic' to go level WAR or something. There are plenty of factors in Redemption's favor that make up for the fTP discrepancy.
In situations where multihits puts you over 100tp, Torcleaver receives a benefit over Quietus because its fTP rises, while for the most part, more ignore defense bonus is useless.
I can ding this too. With a ~15tp overage (not gonna assume a bog-standard 7-hit) from a Double Attack on a closing round, Torcleaver gains 0.15 fTP. It's rather nice and easy to calculate like that.
4.9 / 4.75 = 3.16% increase.
With a 20tp overage from a Double Attack on a closing round, Quietus's bonus climbs from 10% to 14%.
1.14 / 1.10 = 3.6% increase, assuming Attack is not capped (and rarely will it ever be).
Isn't that funny? I love paltry arguments, but even more when they backfire so completely. I'm not reflecting this on you, just pointing out a plainly fallacious statement. Even in a rare attack-capped situation... 3% more damage on 10% of your WS, woo-f*cking-hoo.
I'm happy to discuss this on friendly(-as-possible) terms in another thread so we stop sh*tting up the neato magical WS (which likely spanks both in Abyssea) thread anymore. Maybe call a mod to move these posts to a separate thread if Alla supports that. Edited, May 7th 2011 2:44am by Raelix