Moogle HatFollow

I finally got Moogle expansion and sort of want to make it into a WS piece for my War Sam and Drg. Besides the obvious 4 str 15 WS ACC choice, what is better for the 3 jobs combined? Or would one choice benefit one job more but not the other? I read a bit on both war and sam forum and did not see anyone did any test on the choices even just for one particular job. Anyone got some info on this?

I am torn between:

2 str and 2% haste
2% WS damage and 4 agi
10 Acc + 5 Att.

I currently WS in Askar head or Ohat depending on the mob.

The only one that isn't garbage is the acc/attack augment. 2% haste in the head slot is valueless and 2% WS damage can be easily surpassed with 5% hitrate.

It can also be used as a very nice piece over o.hat in a full accuracy build (like, if you were kiting kirin).

bsphil (didn't capitalize) is right, Lucinus is wrong.

Just think about it. Let's say you hit a WS for 1000, 2% more damage puts it at 1020. That can easily be surpassed if you put on 5att 10acc and take off 10acc from other slots and put in STR.

I'll fold. For some reason I forgot about WAR's lack of Accuracy Bonus traits -- the OP mentioned DRG and SAM, both of which are slightly less likely to use the extra Acc -- however, from where would you remove that extra Acc without removing something else beneficial as well?

And you'll have to excuse the totally dumb question here as I've just woken up; would Aggressor affect this in any way at all?

Also, why do I only ever post when I'm tired or drinking? I end up talking total crap.

Edited, Dec 2nd 2009 2:24am by Lucinus

I do find 2% WS damage and 2 Str kinda minimum too. I already use str on rings and such, with exception of legs (no Ares, would war af2 pant's 5 str win over haidate? ), and I could try change hands too I guess. My question is, with 25 ACC on head, would KO beats Hauby for RR and KJ?

PS: but I guess the acc+att will do nothing for Sam.

Edited, Dec 2nd 2009 9:49am by icebabyisme

In all honesty, there is a case to be made for 2% damage. It depends what you use WAR for.
I use my war in only 2 senarios:

#1 merits - I'm past acc cap on birds without an additional +10 acc (actually I'm past cap w/o the +15acc on WS, which is why I got it for another job), so it would serve little purpose here

#2 Zerg fights - Where I have bard 2hr'ed marchx2,minx2,madx2
I'm passed acc cap here as well and only the 2% damage would help.

I should clarify. What I mean by "all of the time" is that it averages out. Yes, you have 0 2/5 of the time, but over enough time.. you should see the same improvement of having 15 acc all the time. unless you wait until agg is up to ws, or something stupid.

Not to mention for agg UP, War has fire bomblet vs. tiphia sting, hauberk +1/adaberk vs ACP haub, haidate vs homam pants, perdu voulge vs thal/cletine, etc. It's not like that acc gear can't be used during or without aggressor.

Not saying drg is geared badly or anything... just saying those kinds of statements hold very little water.

doctorugh wrote:

I was actually going to say the same thing. By my calculations, assuming full GA merits, you have 383 acc which is 21 below average acc cap on birds. With aggressor up you just hit the cap for level 82 birds (well, 1 over cap). With hasso/agressor up that is the only time you are "well past" the acc cap for birds. So if you have different gear now (which I'm guessing is the situation) I guess this doesnt apply but otherwise you are sorely mistaken.

Edit: Bah, my quote boxing sucks!



Edited, Dec 2nd 2009 2:29pm by KWileyStyle

Use haidate for Raging Rush and use war af2 for KJ (unless you are hurting for acc, then use haidate on KJ). Why? Because Raging Rush is able to critical hit and King's Justice cannot critical hit (unless you use Mighty Strikes). As for KO vs. Hauby(+1?), well, that depends a lot on your other gear. I don't feel I should tell you what to wear but, this is what I use for RR so take what you want:

kheten(dmg+5 str+4 attk+6)/pole/X/bomblet/
Galea(str+4 WSacc+15 acc+10 attk+5)/sea gorget/brutal/triumph/
hauby+1/alkys(no heca atm)/rajas/flame/
foragers/warwolf/B.haidate/heca/

With 0 buffs, 8/8 GA merits, and just this gear, I have a 90% hitrate on lvl82 G.Colibri. The 90% is not including the sea gorget, so if what I heard was true (that sea gorget adds 10 acc), then I would have a 95% hitrate 100% of the time for RR on G.Colibri.

Maybe someone with better math skills than me can determine if 5str 5dex >or< 10acc 10attk. When it comes to aggressor, agg up/down macros are very helpful, useful, and necessary (imo) take advantage of that JA.

Hope some of this helps.

-frankwhite

Yes, the Cuch is another benefit for BLU,COR, and DNC (in the future). Its a nice side option for my DRG that i cant put polearm merits into, as well as an occassional benefit to WAR in some situations.
Chiv chain:(using Soil Gorget for WS) I'm working on collecting ghrah m chips with BLU and soloing jailer of fort on COR. (instead of peacock). In collection process atm, I might sell a bunch to buy peacock - havent decided.
Firebomlet: It would be a small upgrade for war, again only affective 20% of the time (or I could have +6att 100% of the time). I used to have it and sold to get martial gun (a neccessity for DD COR).
Fowling earring: The +1 STR just gets me to the next fSTR tier on birds (I have a +1 STR aug on NQ. hauberk). So it should be stronger on birds for me. I dont feel theres too much difference btw that and assualt earring anyways.
HQ Hauberk: would be nice. I just got enough to get hermes sandals so I can start soloing Fort. Peacock/fort torque is next (helps multiple jobs). HQ hauberk is #3 on the list.

Lawl about hasso build all you want, its what I do in merits and its quite fun.
And of course you Hasso when zerging. Seigan only sees use if something doesnt go as planned (multiple pulls, someone AFK/DC, ect)

Now you have as much insight into my build as I think is possible.

I editted my previous post, do to a mistake in acc calc.



Edited, Dec 2nd 2009 6:31pm by doctorugh

Save for HQ Haubergeon. Helps more jobs.

Cyth, I understand and agree with what you are saying. I was meaning in regards to what you achieve vs. the overall potential of the WS. Less acc below cap would still degrade the potential of each ws linearly, but drg already starts at a lower capacity to land all its hits than war in a ws sense.

Sell the Torques, buy PCC. Get a Spike Necklace for Aggressor up until you have the points for Kubira Bead Necklace, if you don`t already have one for BLU. Sell four to five Torques = buy Ancient Torque instead. I @#%^ing love people who think Fortitude Torque is good for anything.

I understand your confusion, but you aren't grasping the concept of averages. Lets take an extremely simple example (If someone wants to get more in depth or show me what this would REALLY be please feel free... only my effort at a demonstration.)

Lets say Person A and Person B both have an 82.5% hitrate. Let's also assume every 2 accuracy is worth 1% hitrate.

For example, lets postulate that both players melee for 1000 swings and each swing they connect, they do 100 damage.

----------------------------------------
To improve their hitrate, Person A likes consistency. He equips +15 acc in gear all 1000 swings.

15/2 = 7.5% hitrate increase. 82.5% hitrate + 7.5% = 90% hitrate.
out of 1000 swings, he lands 900 of them. (1000*0.9)

His total damage is 90,000.

----------------------------------------
To improve their hitrate, Person B likes to be strange and inconsistent. He uses no accuracy for the first 400 swings out of 1000. (2/5) After the 400th swing, he equips +25 acc in gear for the other 600 (3/5).

For the first 400 swings, he has an 82.5% hitrate, so he lands 330 of them. (400*0.825) He does 33000 damage.
For the last 600 swings, he has a 95% hitrate, so he lands 570 of them. (600*0.95) He does 57000 damage.

57000 + 33000 = 90,000 total damage.

I trust you understand now that the result of each situation is the same. Over enough time, +25 acc 3/5 of the time is equal to +15 acc 5/5 of the time.

In regards to your job analogy, it is wrong. Your boss pays you $20/hour for every hour you WORK. When you are home he pays you nothing. Over the course of the WHOLE day though, you made $6.66 per hour.



Sure, if you know that you for sure cap accuracy. Fortitude torque is great when you don't know if you do for sure, or if you are in a situation where you may be fighting some mobs that you do and some you don't.

It's 1 base dmg, 3 acc, 3 attk, vs. 6 acc 7 attk. Seems like they aren't that far apart. I'd use kubira for a polearm build though... seems birds only if you are building for crits. Maybe someone has done some real math on it.

Edited, Dec 3rd 2009 2:50pm by LordMnementh

MNK can solo JoF? brb gotta look this sh*t up.

Thanks for bringing up shield collar though, I didn't even know about it.

bypassing animation lock lol

ja0wait = enable, end of story

yeah really

ffxiap had ja0wait, didn't stop you from moving aftercast on spells/ja

My sea LS went 0/15+ (I forgot the count) on Fortitude. Some player who bought a pop set off me said he went 0/21. Good luck on drop.

I finally realize why there aren't that many dedicated sea LS - drop rate is too horrible and people get discouraged and leave after no drop like 0/10. Our sea LS did 3 runs a week (3-4 hours per run) and in over 2 months we got only 2 Faith, 2 Justice, 1 Temp., 1 Hope and a few capes(5~7). Really bad drop rate. JoL never put out any real drop, Polearm for ya, that's it.

Since PCC is about equal in TP (or even better if no capped ACC) comparing to Fortitude, I'd rather just stick to PCC than shelling out 3 mil for Fortitude. If Love Torque, yeah I will. Not for Fortitude. That it's hard to get does not mean that it's really that grand.

You suck at making comparisons and drawing conclusions. I suppose by your logic, someone just starting their first job would be getting paid a tiny fraction of a cent per hour, based on how they got paid nothing the first 16-18 years of their life because they were too young to get a job.

Maybe if you were in some weird situation where you made $20/hour but only got paid say, 3 hours for every 5 hours, so overall you only make about $12/hour.

10 hour shift = 6 hours paid. 6 hours * $20/hour = $120. $120 / 10 hours of work = $12/hour!

Acc+25 60% of the time is the EQUIVALENT of acc+15 100% of the time. That doesn't mean you get accuracy when it's not up. Think of it as a best fit line for the statistical plot of how much accuracy you're receiving over time. I didn't think anyone was dense enough to not understand that...



Edited, Dec 4th 2009 12:30pm by bsphil

I think you missed the point... PCC is better than Fortitude Torque in uncapped situations, and Kubira Beads are better in capped situations. The only thing Fortitude Torque is good for is a Chakra macro piece, and parting suckers from three million gil.

I don't think you read the last part of my post... or have listed to Max on BG waaaaay too much when he does his "math."

I'm getting different % DOT for those.

1 Base Damage = (96 + 10) = 106
107/106 = 0.94% DOT

4 att: 447 + 65 food/292 (avg bird dia2) -.325 = 1.428
451 +65/292 -.325 = 1.442

1.442/1.428 = 0.98% DOT (yes i know there are many variables like zerk, warcry,chaos roll, different eq to change this somewhat, I'd guess its value is btw 0.8 and 1.05 depending on other things. Could be 0 if you are over the cap.)

I'm just curious as to how you are getting you numbers, but I think I'm convinced the PCC is the way to go since it will hit all jobs at a lower level. And I do have k.bead which seems on par with fort if acc is capped and the 4 dex would make it better if it pushed me up another +1% crit (maybe more??).

Edited, Dec 5th 2009 4:39pm by doctorugh

In what way would Kubira Beads be better than fort torque for gaining tp?

4 STR = 1 base damage, 3 attack.

Using doctorugh's tp build as an example, he's going from 106 base damage to 107, which is 107/106 = .94% increase during tp, and he has a 50/50 tp:ws split, so it's an overall increase of .47%.

Fortitude Torque gives you 7 attack, so comparing it to Kubira Beads, you have a 3 attack advantage. For 3 attack to beat a .47% increase in damage, you need to be at or below 3/.0047 = 638 attack, after the 3 attack increase.

edit - This is incorrect... new math is: 4/.0094 = 425.5, meaning that the 4 attack from Fortitude Torque needs to put you less than 412 attack total.

Using doc's tp build again, he's saying he has 447 attack in standing gear. Add Berserk, MinuetsorChaos roll, and Kabobs, you should be at about 700 attack.

If you want to get really anal, you can have a gear set for when you don't have Berserk up, since you will be at about 630 attack. That's going to be about 1/5th of the time you are tping. Also, If you aren't getting any buffs, then Fortitude Torque is better. Just naked WAR with 447 attack plus Berserk, no BRD, no COR, no food. So standing around in Whitegate and Campaign, Torque wins.

edit - Again, I'm not going to account for critical hits, since it varies from mob to mob and race to race, but if you happen to know the AGI of the mob you are fighting you can figure it out. With most merit level mobs you are looking at a tiny fraction of a % increase. Just keep in mind that the small increase you get from Kubira beads is actually slightly larger than it appears.

Edited, Dec 6th 2009 4:02pm by TybudX



Edited, Dec 11th 2009 7:10am by TybudX

Good catch. In that case, the decision swings marginally in Fortitude Torque's favour (before crits). Remember folks, buy your Torques off of me.