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Foolkiller VS ByakkosFollow

#1 Jun 26 2009 at 12:14 PM Rating: Decent
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I know foolkiller's latent hasn't been found yet but how does this compare to Byakkos with it's acc/attk and delay? I'm currently working on perdu though but until then is it viable?

Thanks
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#2 Jun 26 2009 at 12:23 PM Rating: Good
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No.

If you could consistently have the latent up, the answer changes, but until then...

No.
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#3 Jun 26 2009 at 1:30 PM Rating: Good
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Foolkiller sadly just doesn't compare very well if you have Byakko's.
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#4 Jun 26 2009 at 1:32 PM Rating: Good
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And so far no theories have panned out on that latent.

Also, that delay rating sucks :/

Edited, Jun 26th 2009 5:35pm by thatdamnelf
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#5 Jun 26 2009 at 3:51 PM Rating: Good
And if you don't have byakko's anyway, berserker's is cheaper and equal to byakko's.
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#6 Jun 26 2009 at 6:51 PM Rating: Good
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Commander MojoVIII wrote:
And if you don't have byakko's anyway, berserker's is cheaper and equal to byakko's.


Fourth is cheaper and equal to berserkers.

Byakkos is better.

Foolkiller, even if you could keep the latent up isnt as good as byakkos. Damage is simply too low.
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#7 Jun 26 2009 at 6:57 PM Rating: Excellent
If you have a rajas berserker's is better than fourth because you are able to obtain a 6hit build. True though, without that they are more equal, and fourth is far cheaper.

I'm pretty sure milich or kenage or someone math'd out that berserker's and byakko's are pretty much even.
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#8 Jun 27 2009 at 11:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Berserkers and Byakko are more or less even cuz is hard to tell the difference between +1 D and +5 attack, both things should account for more or less 1% DoT.

Foolkiller have a very nice presentation, 7 accuracy in the weapon is nothing to sneeze at, however it's DPS(11.04) is lower than byakko's(11.19)

The difference in DPS accounts for 1.3% DoT but the accuracy bonus will return least 3.82% for non capped situations.

However while Foolkiller could look better there is necessary to consider one last factor, the difference in delay makes byakko(or berserkers) a canditate for 7-hit build(/non-sam) or 6-hit build(/Sam) with the help of rajas ring, in both cases however Foolkiller stay in the same number of hits(8 for /non-sam and 7 for /Sam) making byakko(or Bersker) an automatic winner if you posses the ring.

Now before going and spent 1m in the case you are missing rajas, consider that foolkiller at best is just a place holder and the cheap fourth division toporok while not as strong will perform good enough to hold you until you get your ring.

If rajas is not an option for you(cuz you have tamas or sattva) consider waiting until Perdu, IMHO a place holder isn't worth 1 million gils but it's ultimately your decision, after all there are some steps in every warrior's carrier where foolkiller will be your best option.

I hope it helps.

Ken.
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#9 Jun 27 2009 at 1:08 PM Rating: Decent
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kenage wrote:
If rajas is not an option for you(cuz you have tamas or sattva)
...then you should drop that other ring, talk to the Marble Bridge door, and suck up the 28-day wait if necessary.

Tamas is "save an inventory space" for mages, and Sattva has been confirmed to be trash repeatedly in the past. Neither one is an excuse for not having Rajas.
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#10 Jun 27 2009 at 2:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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At the risk of turning this into a CoP debate, Sattva is without compare for a 2nd tanking ring for ninjas especially (can only use Mermaid for +enmity rings otherwise, which is Rare, so can only use one); and a ring that allows you to have +int/mnd, +mp, and -enmity all at once is pretty damn valuable for hardcore mages. Any talk of "Rajas or GTFO" will be laughed at by me, because the other two rings are - quite frankly - very under-rated by melee most players.
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#11MDenham, Posted: Jun 27 2009 at 3:27 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) The thing is, Tamas is very much a "let's save you some inventory" piece, with minor exceptions (it's pretty damn good for use on Spirit Taker - better than Rajas, in fact).
#12 Jun 27 2009 at 3:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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What? That's kinda silly. You think any tank worth inviting to actually, y'know, tank something will think "sweet, I have +enmity, I can slack off on my spells and JAs now"? No, they're gonna think "sweet, I have +enmity, I can do what I was doing before but it will be more effective, hate will be more secure, fights will be easier, and everyone is happy."

Minor uses for Tamas? So, a ring with +mnd, +mp, and -enmity isn't perfect for whms, or indeed, anyone who casts cures? +int and -enmity isn't perfect for blms? It isn't ideal for anyone who might go from set A to set B, and lose some MP in the process of doing so?

Any halfway decent mage or tank won't base their playstyle on the amount of + or - enmity they have. They will do the exact same sh*t as normal, only the + or - enmity will make their life easier.

Is Rajas good? Yes, it's arguably the best of the three. But saying

Quote:
Neither one is an excuse for not having Rajas.


is, quite frankly, absolutely stupid. If you can't see that, then you need to step outside of that little enclosed area in which you're thinking, because it's not doing you any favors.

Edited, Jun 28th 2009 12:00am by MithraDooom
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#13 Jun 27 2009 at 4:23 PM Rating: Decent
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MithraDooom wrote:
What? That's kinda silly. You think any tank worth inviting to actually, y'know, tank something will think "sweet, I have +enmity, I can slack off on my spells and JAs now"?
No, and that's not what I said.

What I said is that there are people who do think that, and unfortunately, they're fairly common. (Which is basically saying "there are a lot of people who play tank jobs that aren't actually worth inviting to tank things". If you disagree with that, there are bigger issues here.) Keep in mind that these are probably the same kinds of people who are liable to turtle up on PLD, or think that 'voke + Utsu is all that a NIN needs to do to tank.

As far as on mage jobs: I'm probably projecting my own tendency to pull hate more often with Enmity- gear on than without it onto other people as well, but I don't do it on purpose. I'm not sure if it's the back of my mind deciding to go a little more balls-to-the-wall than I would normally do, or if the Enmity- on a WHM is directly proportional to the square root of how sucky the tank will be. :-D

And I didn't say "minor uses" for Tamas. I said "minor exceptions to it being just a saving-you-inventory piece", which is also different. It's not useless, or even situationally useful (it's pretty much useful at all times) - but it does essentially combine three rings' worth of stuff into one slot (an INT+ ring, a MND+ ring, and an MP+ ring - of which Enmity- appears on both of the former). Of these, you generally only need one facet at any given time (with max MP, you're normally doing buffs; and as far as INT and MND, the only time you're needing both at the same time is pumping up Spirit Taker). Hence, it saves you inventory, but can generally be replaced with other rings (at the expense of both inventory and appropriate macros).
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#14 Jun 27 2009 at 11:30 PM Rating: Good
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Re. Rajas vs. Sattva for a NIN...

Wouldn't the increased overall DoT from Rajas outweigh the Enmity+3 from Sattva? I'm just curious to know is all.
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#15 Jun 28 2009 at 2:47 AM Rating: Good
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Not if you're using earth staff /drk or /rdm.
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#16 Jun 28 2009 at 7:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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MDenham wrote:
stuff which I'm editing to save your scroll wheel


You're presenting a decent argument now, one which I can basically agree with, so that's cool. I just took exception to you saying (implying, whatever) that Tamas and Sattva are trash, and that the choice is basically "Rajas or you're wrong". Plus I was pretty pissed off last night from a tier3 Einherjar being cancelled for a tier1 due to pathetically low turn-out, and breaking an Angel Skin didn't help my mood.

Quote:
Of these, you generally only need one facet at any given time (with max MP, you're normally doing buffs; and as far as INT and MND, the only time you're needing both at the same time is pumping up Spirit Taker).


tbh, the idea of a ring with both +mnd and +mp is quite appealing to my rdm side. I hate that to go from my gear set for buffs (a mix of conserve mp and fast cast) to casting an enfeeb, I lose a lot of max mp, and following a convert > cure 4 > regen > start buffing/enfeebing again cycle, the loss of that mp is pretty noticable. 30mp isn't much, but it's still nice, and while not as powerful as what Rajas does for melee, it still has an impact.

Quote:
Wouldn't the increased overall DoT from Rajas outweigh the Enmity+3 from Sattva? I'm just curious to know is all.


If meleeing, yes. When you're playing ninja, there's two kinds of mobs: those you can keep hate on by meleeing (merit level mobs, really), and those you can't (HNM/gods/whatever). If you can melee for hate, then you just wear DD gear wherever possible and focus on that, maybe only macroing in enmity for voke/warcry. If you can't melee for hate, you'll be /rdm or /drk, and not using any DD gear at all; so the situations Sattva is useful for as ninja are those where an accuracy ring won't help you tank at all.

Edited, Jun 28th 2009 3:24pm by MithraDooom
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#17 Jun 28 2009 at 11:03 AM Rating: Decent
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NINs tank?

It's strange, but I actually have not met a single NIN that can tank something efficiently. Maybe I should transfer to your server.
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#18 Jun 28 2009 at 11:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Why have a NIN tank when you can do it yourself D:
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#19 Jun 28 2009 at 1:00 PM Rating: Good
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mazmaz wrote:
NINs tank?

It's strange, but I actually have not met a single NIN that can tank something efficiently. Maybe I should transfer to your server.


I've only met two ninja who were serious about /drk or /rdm tanking. One now has G-horn; the other is myself (if one can be said to have met one's self). There's plenty who will play a "voke bitch" style role on merit-type mobs or whatever, but needing whole new gear-sets, play-styles, and subjobs to tank HNM type mobs seems to put most ninja off the idea. Shame imo, as nin/drk is one of the job combos I enjoy most in the game (the other being war/sam).
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#20 Jun 28 2009 at 1:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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[quote=mazmaz](if one can be said to have met one's self).
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It was trippy.
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#21 Jun 28 2009 at 3:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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MithraDooom wrote:
(if one can be said to have met one's self).
I met myself once.

It was trippy.
Lonely night?
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#22 Jun 28 2009 at 4:33 PM Rating: Decent
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In other news, got my ass handed to me by a Kikoku NIN at Mamools today with me as WAR/SAM. 37.11 to 36.71
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bsphil wrote:
I suppose I could also call it "smallifying numberitude" but that sounds incredibly gay. Like, milich youtube playlist gay.
#23 Jun 28 2009 at 5:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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mazmaz wrote:
NINs tank?

It's strange, but I actually have not met a single NIN that can tank something efficiently. Maybe I should transfer to your server.
There was a time when EVERYTHING was tanked by ninjas, quite happy time if you ask me =D(I got nin to 75 around that time cuz, usually I needed a ninja for everything I wasn't able to deal by myself.)

Rajas VS Sattva VS Tamas.

I'm also with MDenham about Rajas, I usually recommend that, but is a fact that ppl with have different choices, and it's another fact that you can have only 1 of those rings at any give time.

My point: ppl with different choices need to be advised as well, cuz like it or not there are still a few(very few) valid reasons to pick the other rings.

Sincerely.

Ken.
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