Nerf RDM!Follow

I think Sipar got ninja nerfed.

Edited, Dec 2nd 2010 12:06am by K1n371x

You're retarded.

Just because it's not your main focus doesn't mean you should just give up and not even try to do well.

Because if you're /BLU you're there for defensive purposes. Sanguine Blade is better then a Cure IV.

If you're there to DD (IE: You're using Vorpal) you'd be better off being RDM/NIN and using Death Blossom.

If you're using a high damage weapon (Like Shamshir+1) your TP is going to suffer horribly in exchange for weapon skill damage.

If you're using a low damage weapon (Joyeuse, Khanda+1) your Death Blossom's as /NIN are going to be similar to your Vorpal's anyways.

I really don't see where you are going with this. /NIN gives you both high TP gain of an offhand while the strength of a good mainhand.

Vorpal doesn't feel like it scales as well as Evisceration has in Abyssea, but that just might be me getting stuck in parties without BRDs and CORs when I'm on BLU.

I sure hope SB doesn't stand for savage blade. If it does you have my condolences.
Then again you may have miss typed and meant to put DB and not SB.

If you had Razed Ruins and no Almace/Woe Sword I would suggest just using Evisceration until you did over subbing war. And no you don't need Cygne to be taking seriously meleeing as it stands, you just need to be not Drk/Blm/Smn/Sch.




Edited, Dec 2nd 2010 1:25pm by Neisan

Hurry up on leveling whm while you're at it, you're not a real healing class either.

If you want to buff, go level a real support class like brd.

choo-choo all aboard the quote train

ftfy. SMN is pretty good at present. Mellowy is the only one who really seems to think otherwise.

Winner.

@Zafire,

The math says otherwise. Vorpal as /WAR and DB as /NIN are both four hit WS's with DB's last hit being with a weaker D weapon. DB has 50% MND WSC and Vorpal has a crit mod, over time the crit mod equals and often beats the WSC especially on RDM which is traditionally a low attack job. With RR there is absolutely zero question that vorpal will crush DB and Cyne should crush both of them. VV's +30% crit rate and +crit damage is stupidly broken not to mention the +DEX counts as ACC and will push you to cap or near cap dDEX crit rate. Its so broken I've debated on whether its just better to just go with evis spam.

I'm not debating /WAR vs /NIN vs /BLU so stop trying to drag the topic in that direction. The SJ is entirely dependent on what your doing and what your personal style is. Raw damage was approx equal @75 with current levels of DW / gear. Since them swords have gotten better in general but SE has done its darnedest to not create another Ridill / Joy type weapon. All the new multihits have lower proc rates and much higher delay, when you combine those two the actual damage over time isn't much to write home about. The 2~3 one is just plain crap if your not /DNC cure spaming, and the OaT one is slightly better then Joy overall but comes with a significantly higher delay. Next update @90 and beyond I expect this to change as they throw a few more +D and hopefully some -delay on the weapons. Then again the way things are looking we might not be capable of viable melee for much longer, BRD's are getting better melee gear then us now.

We could still (pre update) over-write their Sublimation to piss them off. And why are you casting refresh without composure anyway? 2 pieces of Empyrean have increases effect magic duration, the +2 legs increase refresh 2 by 1 tick, and each piece of +2 increases enhancing magic duration cast while composure is up by 10% by every piece after first, did you take that into account?

EDIT: Not that sublimation or refresh matter much in abyssea until it's finished anyway. This update just means I never have to cast refresh 2 on a sch (as if I had to before).

Edited, Dec 3rd 2010 9:38am by Neisan

A melee SCH/SAM is going to be able to do more damage than me, I think.

They can WS for crap, do a 2.4k+ nuke, 2k~ SC, then MB for 3k+. Yeah, we got nothing on that, at all.

Especially since nukes on tougher things scale well compared to physical damage on tougher things.

Edited, Dec 3rd 2010 8:45am by Zafire

It's not their melee damage, it's the fact they'll be able to nuke to Self-skillchain, then magic burst off of said self-sc. They could potentially drop about 7k worth of damage in 7-8 seconds. And with /SAM they could keep TP up relatively easily.

Only tricky part is if a SCH has the relic body, but for many Dynamis shells that had been a throwaway piece for years. Run Tav a few times, you'll probably have it (or just be able to mirror it with the refresh body). Meanwhile, +2ing things requires a shell dedicating 2-4 specific NMs to you per item on top of the steps to pop them and the fact each upgrade item has 3 other jobs associated with it that you might have to compete with people for. Again, well and good if you have people wrapped around your finger, but in the FFXI I play, people are greedy and want things, too. WHM's already the go to healer (and justifiably so) just as BLM is the wanted nuker (for both damage and triggers). I have no problem with SCH being the superior magic hybrid in our dynamic with them, but comparatively SE isn't showing much attention to the melee angle given the effort and shortcomings it brings.

Edited, Dec 3rd 2010 9:20am by Seriha

Ahh but you can get acc +10 on ACP body to go with the DW+3. Honestly get both, use ACP body for when you don't have any outside haste and Golliard if you do. Or could build ACP body for something else but really, what else can it do that you'd actually want it to do?

Part of me is just frazzled at the fact I'm seeing suggestions myself and others have made for RDM to give it some identity are being applied to other jobs. AoEing buffs first showed up on BLU with Diffusion, then later SCH (which we couldn't take advantage of directly until the 80 cap... and then they don't allow Haste). I know damn well I've proposed nukes gaining the ability to open/close SCs (Though I guess we've technically seen this with Chain Affinity). I've wanted means to extend our buff durations on everyone without requiring fancy gear.

Contrary to the snarky opinions of some on Alla or BG, I'm also conscious of the balancing act we need to juggle relative to other jobs. I just can't accept the fact we're so broken when the majority of invites involve main healing and the ignorance of other abilities that supposedly identify us as a hybrid. Our curing isn't that great, especially compared to WHMs, but I think it speaks of other facets lacking. Granted, nuking is probably where it should be, but I still wobble on the feeling we should've been left off T4 nukes while SCH didn't get T5s, but new Helix spells instead.

Oh well. Last hope for excitement is added equipment.

You and your BNS...

You must be holding a hell of a lot of TP if you're doing 2-3k in swings before WSing for SC purposes. Speaking of SCs, aside from jobs that can perform them at will, the situations we get to act on them aren't exactly common since everyone else is more interested in spamming their sh*t. Do "accidental" SCs happen? Sure. Could you sit and snipe? Yeah, but how much WS damage are you losing over time for the MB boost? Then what when the next DD breaks chain with their spam?

Either way, I'm just looking for incentives to swing. If you wanna do the whole song and dance again, pretending all is good because you're okay with just shying off invites or ignoring criticism, by all means. Meanwhile, the majority of the community will continue to spurn the concept for various reasons while SE makes no conscious effort to change minds despite a past promise to encourage frontlining.

I don't doubt 2k in optimal conditions (BRD, COR, perfect gear, all debuffs in place all the time), but in general you're unlikely to be capping ATK or Crit rate, especially since our ideal Haste builds aren't exactly high on ATK. I'm also considering life post Abyssea where it's possible we won't be spoiled by Atmas or even the perks of alliance EXP.

For the most part, RDMs are still using at 85 what they'd been using at 75 for melee gear. The way I see it, we weren't called upon for this role then, so when most everyone else has gotten better gear while ours has remained unchanged. I don't see how that helps our melee situation. And if the argument was that our gear was just that awesome to begin with, all I can do is shake my head.

CDC's great. No argument there. I just don't feel RDM melee is something that should begin, and still not preferred, at 85. I said similar back in the day with Death Blossom, but compared to the hoops you have to jump through to get CDC, DB almost feels like a cakewalk. Overall, there's just lots of little things SE could do to nudge us in the right direction. I'm sure I'll be accused of BNS again, of which I'll just say big numbers are what people recognize most quickly. I'm more than game for utility people either want, or just make the task easier for us to the point there's no reason not to.

And when we don't need EXP anymore or events go elsewhere?

Edit: More specifically, alliance EXP lets some things slide since it's often 18v1 than the old school 6v1. When you get away from this, you start bleeding back into the optimization arguments where RDM's physical prowess is generally lacking. One only needs to look for examples of lowman outcry with the pending THF change and how some will demand Subtle Blow builds or will just cry foul about not being able to get as much benefit out of the THF with the old ding and ditch tactic. Nonetheless, this is a case of SE forcing their hand for THF's benefit. I see no reason why RDM can't be looked at for its own sustained melee perks.

Edited, Dec 3rd 2010 7:21pm by Seriha

No one is ever going to exp outside abyssea. Not when you can get 200k+/hr fighting dc mobs.

And where is this assumption that we won't be doing abyssea at 99 coming from? They could add new zones after heroes, or even just new content to old zones. You don't know what they're going to do after monday, and claiming to is just retarded.

Edited, Dec 3rd 2010 7:24pm by ThePsychoticOne

At this point, it's dumb to assume anything.

Even so, that's what we've been working with for the last 7 years. Why would we expect anything different now? Even composure was a generic brand band-aid. It's been pretty obvious for awhile now SE wishes RDM would just go away. After this update SCH will be able to kite-nuke better than us on anything they can get away with /blm and arguably even when they're /nin. It was RDM's last bastion. gg