June Update Cor Teaser PicFollow

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/4937

First thing I noticed was a picture of a full AF3 cor getting a lovely 11 featured directly below the June Minor Update note. Could this finally be what they mentioned so long ago about taking away the 10 minute 11's and doing something else with it? Originally I assumed that the AF3 was them addressing the longer roll duration... Can't wait!

But if you fully merited "Fold" you'll only be underwhelmed (or Bust!) for 5 minutes.

And with all this free xp lately, who isn't capped on merits by now?

As long as they do not make it where Cor have to roll an 11 to madder in abys i would be happy though things are looking like it may go that way sadly. Need to do more with cor then just the very random 11 effects but this could be said for a lot of jobs who where left behind with low stagger ability and no good crit ws.

I should reworded it there a lack of rng ws for both stagger and crit the main weapon of the cor job and others. Also that means only 2 rolls are of any use in the game out of 26 that seems very much of a waist. You also left out ninja they can get yellow too and all the others in a lot of ways about the same as a cor can pull other then the 2 rng ws. There is no reason for any one to take a cor into abys with them when you can have a pt of 3-4 jobs that will cover nearly every thing and with things like atmas you do not need rolls hell you cant even tell if there an unlucky or an 11 on you with atmas and i dough it will changes unless they make 11 on cor roll so strong that rolling 11 its the only roll worth doing.

IMO the weakness of this job is more than just getting proc, it's:

1. Gimp buffs. When BRD can do 7~11(I think) MP refresh(Once we're out of abyssea refresh will be important again), COR can only do average 2~3 and no more than 5. BRD has access to powerful defensive rolls such as TierII Carol or Scherzo.....Magus roll hardly makes a difference and there are no PDT- roll or anything. And March also beat Attack/DA roll while DDing most of the time(although regain roll can sometimes compete with it depending on the situation) Hell BRD can even 2hr to make the buffs more powerful, but COR has no o-sh*t JAs to make the buffs automatically gives a No.11. Snake eye, Fold or Wildcard are hardly as powerful as Soul voice.

2. Too many useless buffs. COR has variety of buffs compare with BRD, and some buffs are kinda unique, which can be pretty useful depending on the situation, but long ass JA recast time makes it hard to make use of them. For example you can't do fast cast roll + macc roll right before BLM casts sleepga, then right after their spells go off you quickly change to evokers roll to recover their MP or MAB roll for next nuke, and you can't do allies roll when SAM started a self SC, then switch back to other DD roll when you're done etc. Of course if you can do that then COR won't have time to DD at all, then why bother to make so many useless buffs in the first place?

3. Lack of crowd control ability. Light shot only has 2 charge max, so you can't sleep more than 3 mobs. And it shares recast time with main DD/TP gain move. Most of the mage/support job has some form of AoE sleep, or at least got access to them by using SJ: BRD BLU BLM RDM SCH are all good sleepers..Ok I guess COR can AoE sleep if you /SCH, but for a job that has no MP it's not effective to do that at all. They should at least give COR a JA to make QD AoE, makes this job so much more useful.

This job just never has same status in this game as other mage/support job such as BRD BLM RDM(pre-abyssea) WHM. In many ppl's mind it's always a substitute of BRD or only used when you already have a BRD. If they want to fix COR, I think making a buff that's actually relevant or a JA to make QD AOE are good direction.

If they lower the timer then QD will be seen as broken. We can already a large chunk of hate free damage and increaseing that is going to throw things off. Making light shot on its own timer is a good idea though. (who cares abiut darkshot really, i hardly ever use it.) either adding one more charge or making light shot on its own timer are really the only ways to "fix" qd.

As far as agil effecting damage, id rather not. All that would do is force us to carry around even more gear then we already have to currently depending on your access to wildfire. Ive already gone over the trigger sh*t. Abyssea isnt the end so quit acting like it is.

Reducing the timer and adding another shot are to completely different things. Adding another shot means you can more freely use 2 shots while saving one shot for emergency sleeps. Reducing the timer down is similar but your stilled tied to two shots, so you need to hold one shot back for sleeps. The general arugment with qd is you people dont want to hold a shot for light shot, or want to be able to sleep more then 2 mobs.

Reducing the timer down to 20 or 15 seconds would allow us for a hell of a lot more damage then jsut simply adding another shot at 45 seconds.

Most Cors will not ever get wildfire in games current state. Obtaining armageddon is just simply out fo reach for a lot of people since their cor is probably gimp as sh*t anyway. Honestly there are maybe 2-4 CORs on a server that dont roll full af2-AF3 and sub something other then WHM. Obtaining the WoE version is easier but no one outside of a few people actually do that event. So haveing to carry around a ton of AGI to boost QD damage when you can just simply use your matt gear is a bit of a waste.

COR isnt gimped in abyssea. It can practically one shot exp mobs, is the best brew job, and makes a solid soloer in there. Couple that with some of the unique buffs we have its still useful. I think the argument is that COR is gimp, its just that it has a very small nitch to play in the current state of the game.

During JP time there are never more then 10 cor online. NA time 4. 75% of these Corsair's have Armageddon. Corsair is a niche job and to be successful at it, you need top end gear which is an Armageddon. I love being one of the few people on this amazing job. Everywhere I see are ninja's and monk's.

30 seconds is a good compromise. It would give us access to a QD charge for jsut about everytime we use Wildfire. I only mentioned emergency sleeps, because some people for whatever reason still like pulling on Corsair and we may be back to that position again sadly once we leave abyssea.

As far as obtaining an Armageddon, yes it is eays, but you have to realise there are now basically 2 two types of casual players. On one side you have the casuals who can put in the time to actually do there job well and get some pretty decent gear and the gun. On the other side you have the complete idiots who full time twilight gear or still wear kosodes or are just horrible to begin with.

You know those people are out there, you see them take 45min killing X mob your after.

Im jsut rambling now, its been a long day.

Well i somehow agree with you to some degree, i really don t know why some ppl always bring "Wildfire" to the table, i mean the ws is only great in abyssea and we will most likely move out of there on lvl 95+. Outside abyssea it is a very average ws and it is outdone MOST of the time by slug shot.

I also agree with you on the point of not enjoying doing an empyrean weapon on the "easiest Path", i finished my lvl90 caladbolg and hated every second of it(and yes i still believe 3-5 ppl can easily do isgebind without brewing, imho its a waste of 200k cruor to brew that thing.)

Only point i dissagree with is the whole cor/whm, but honestly its more because of personal preference than the usefulness of subbing it. you ll never see me subbing whm, but if it work for other cor and they enjoy it, why not?

Pretty sure 2 ppl can do Isgebind, I've done it MNK+WHM style and although I was there as 3rd person I wasn't really contributing anything to the pt much except extra dmg/cure that isn't needed much. But one brew can kill 4~7 Isgebind at once with WF and only cost 200k cruor(SE already said freeze brew timer is game mechanic and by design, very unlikely they'll ban ppl for doing it), so if you already surplus of cruor from TE farm/NM spam it's always nice to speed things up. Not to mention it's not always easy to get help from a MNK and WHM. So if I have 200k cruor I just go kill a couple at once, saved me lots of effort to drag a MNK and WHM.

WF is really only good in EXP pt and brewing in Abyssea. Everything else it's not that godly besides ODD trigger or against resist piercing mobs. Since most of us already have capped merit, doing EXP pt with WF is also not practical. If I'm farming TE/Gold chests or kill EXP mobs in general, I usually just come BLU and kill 20 mobs at once with 2~3 spells. Kill 20 mobs with 2~3 spells> one shot 1 mob with one WS.

Yes I understand that you take pride in a job you worked hard on getting good gears. But you don't have to look down on someone else that's doesn't focus on this job as much, which is elitism. It takes very long time to get ONE job well geared for average players, unless you're really really hardcore it's impossible to have 8 jobs 90 and all with empyrean weapons and AF3+2 5/5. And most people prefer to focus on jobs they like more, or jobs that actually help their LS/friends more like MNK NIN WAR WHM. If one day Wildfire become a really practical WS, not just an EXP pt WS or brew WS, but actually a WS that takes critical role in group event and invaluable to the team's success, maybe we'll see it more often then. Right now I really have no problem seeing other CORs not having Wildfire, as long as they know what they're doing and how to play the job to maximize it's potential to benefit the entire pt.

Edited, Apr 19th 2011 4:30pm by Afania

Edited, Apr 19th 2011 4:31pm by Afania

Ive seen a lot of mnk and whm duo isgebind, but you be suprised at the "free" isgebind i got from said duos because it decided to rape the mnk. Only reson i talked about it is because brewing it is really not needed at all to succeed and for me its a waste of 200k cruor, even if im swimming in it, still don t like to waste cruor on easy low manned Nms.

For wildfire, again for me its pretty much a "brew toy" its definately not needed to play cor decently, and its gonna be even less needed supposing we move out of abyssea in the futur updates/level cap.

I play two times a week, and I have an Armageddon and a lot of good gear. Time is not an excuse really.

Doesn't mean other ppl who also plays two times a week would also rush to get it like you do. Maybe they're working on other jobs and gears first, or doing other missions first, or crafting and chating or helping LS when they play two times a week?






I didn't ask you not to get better at your job.

But my question is what's the standard of "gearing properly"? Not having an empyrean atm is considered not gearing properly?

Someone finished an Armageddon in 2 weeks, so in his standard everyone without it are all not gearing properly?
So you're not allowed to do empyrean weapon slowly and take 3 years to finish it instead of 2 weeks just because if you grind gear slower than other ppl, you're not gearing properly?

Grinding gear or doing stuff takes time, and some ppl has no <insert your item name here>, that's mostly because they're doing something else when they plays.

We talk about hardcore and elite here, but most of the time the elite in this game always use their own standard against other ppl. And that kinda prevent other ppl to do stuff in this game they truly enjoy. I don't have empyrean weapon and AF3+2 5/5 for my other jobs except COR, so I'm not allowed to do any other in game activity such as Salvage/Missions/Nyzul/Craft/Einherjar/helping LS/chat with friends until all my jobs are geared with AF3+2 5/5 and an empyrean weapon so I'm "geared properly"?

Maybe you enjoy getting gears for your favorite job and make it has better performance, but not everyone else does. And maybe you grind your empyrean in 2 weeks but not everyone else would want to rush and finish it in 2 weeks.

I know FFXI is always like this. I was originally planning to finish Armageddon 80 in 6 months, only popping 1 Carabosse a week during the weekend starting on Oct. And after 3 months of popping 1 Carabosse a week suddenly everyone on the street all has an empyrean and all with "you're not allowed to play your job if you don't have an empyrean" attitude. So I ended up pushing to finish all the way to 85 in less than one month. Now that I have to say if I didn't push, I would probably enjoy this game a bit more.

Anyways, kinda off topic ._. I know FFXI is always like this and probably won't change by ranting here. But when the frustration is making me feel like need to take a break, I more or less feel like I should say something so whoever read this can at least understand that not having an armageddon or any other empyrean weapon is not the end of the world, thus making this game more enjoyable to do whatever you want. I'm not asking everyone not to rush and finish empyrean in 2 weeks, just saying if anyone decide to finish it in 2 years instead or even not bother with empyrean at all, it's perfectly fine and this shouldn't be the main reason to stop other ppl from playing their jobs.

QFT.

No one says they are expecting and Empyrean. But let me put it to you this way. If you're on a softball team for fun; what would you think of the guy who shows up with an oven mitt to catch and a stick to hit? A bit extreme but i think you get the idea.

Yes we understand everyones play time is equal. No its not ok to rock sh*t gear. There is more gear then the best and the worst. It would be nice if they would at least aim for the middle until they can get there.

~Ath

I'm not "defending" those who wearing AF2 and such, tbh, I can't care less about ppl's town gear, especially some random strangers. They wearing AF1, AF2 or AF3 NQ makes no difference to me. My event won't fail because of them, they won't steal my gil/gear. I just don't see any reason to just /c random stranger, and starts all the gear flame just because it's not as good as yours, not like I get any benefit from flaming others gear and flaming others gear won't make me a better player or my events more successful anyways.

There is no COR community anymore. There are a few hardcore around getting their Wildfire brew juice on and no one else. COR/WHM is dead (at least on my server).

I rarely see a COR in the wild anymore and I've not even seen an armageddon yet.

In the end we are still designed as a support job. Having AF2 hat and AF3+2 are the only pieces of equipment that support that role. So that's my prime focus. Next would be strengthening my DD capabilities. While WF is a nice BNS type thing in Abyssea, its rare our group is struggling to kill a mob fast that they want an Empyrean COR in the group. It's still about procs which COR natively has none. So I'm waiting for SE to re-establish COR in the game and I'm not sure that will be as a WF whoring uber ranged attacker.

Bottom line I haven't seen hardly any COR's in game in either sh*tty or good gear. It's a boutique job no one gives a rat's ass about anymore and you can pretty much do with it what you will. I'm always working to gear it as best I can, but I'm not going to jump all over a COR who is rocking AF. In the end, you only really need to gear yourself well enough to complete the task you so desire. IF you can do that naked with an onion knife, more power to ya. I always laugh at the people that think they are uber by low manning things with ultimate gear. Is that really any more skillful than taking a few more players with average gear and killing something?

Unless Cor gets something to trigger TH, most users will pass on Cor. If you're one of the upper echelon of Cor's with a Empy, you don't really need any patches as you'll find your way into most events.

I love my shiny gun and love the fact that Corsair is a niche job. Everyone has a monk or war or ninja, I'm unique and any patch will just make me love the job that much more.

This is the entire complaint though - you shouldn't need an Empyrian weapon to find your way into events. A competent player with good (even if not the best) gear should be able to find a niche.

I dunno though, I do think that in future content the need for buffs will make a comeback. People are a little spoiled now with their refresh atma and awesome melee buffs, and when those go away and you're fighting something that wasn't designed for a 75cap world, it's going to be a rude awakening for many people. Maybe starting as soon as the new Dynamis content, and certainly at some point on the path to level 99.



Yeah, but the perils of being "unique" are also that you don't fit cleanly into a common uncreative "we need jobs X, Y, and Z" strategy. As a diehard PUP main since 2006, I'm all too aware of this. Even in situations where I can fill the role far better than the cookie cutter setup, a lot of people resist using anything but the cookie cutter setup.

When COR was used interchangeably in a "buff/refresher" slot, or occasionally as ranged DD, it wasn't that hard for it to fit in for events. Now, leaders have very little idea how to use a COR effectively. Buffs aren't that important, COR isn't particularly great for hitting any Abyssea weaknesses, and the only real role seems to be that if the COR has an Empyrian weapon and the right atma it can be a great DD. But there are a whole ton of great DDs who don't require an Empyrian, so you're not really even that unique. It's not as if most people's issues with current content boil down to "man, I wish we had more DD power".

I have thf and cor at 90, and to be quite honest, my cor's gear was leaps and bounds better than my thf... but guess what I was asked to come as....

If you only have cor, of course you can make it work... but if you have anything else, the simple fact of being able to proc red, blue, yellow, or in my case TH is greater than the average +2 tp per tick roll and maybe fighter's or Sam's rolls.

Now that I have Armageddon, and the proper atma and gear for it... I'm asked to come cor, since I can actually deal damage (oh yea, and give buffs to myself since nobody asks for them outside of tacticians roll)

... anyways... still looking forward to June.... big time!

That's surprising to me, but goes to show that different groups want different things. Or in some cases, your group may already have a THF (fairly common) and not need another.

In general though, THF not only has TH, but is one of the only two jobs that can hit all dagger blue procs and is an excellent tank (or backup tank) on a lot of Abyssea NMs. I'd imagine that these things are more in demand to a lot of players.

Our LS always brings a RNG to events since otherwise you're missing a LOT of blue procs in piercing time. I personally would prioritize bringing a THF and RNG over a COR in Abyssea events.

Interesting. We have a ton of THFs, and one regular who has THF RNG BST. We usually put her on RNG, bring one person THF for TH/dagger procs/occasional evasion tanking, and we don't have to worry much about piercing time. If attendance is strong (normally we run with 12 or so, sometimes a little more/less) and we have enough job flexibility, we have a few people with DRG as well to guarantee blue procs in piercing. If not, we just hope it's not polearm ;)

The one that gives us more trouble than anything else is slashing - we never seem to have a SAM when we need Great Katana.

I'm personally the main MNK in the LS, so between me and a WHM with Hexa we're always covered in blunt time. And due to me usually being on MNK, and our only other regular with 90COR usually filling a need on BLM WHM WAR or even the occasional RNG, we tend not to have a COR in our runs.

With blue being well covered, we don't really ever bother with paying too much attention to time for blue procs, except if we're about to pop and the window is about to change (say, hold off if it's very close to blunt time, or hurry and pop while it's still blunt). Covering blue is pretty important for us though, maybe more than a lot of groups, since a significant chunk of our focus in large LS runs is on getting items associated with blue weakness.

Edited, Apr 27th 2011 3:22pm by Anza