Anarchy & Detonator vs Slug ShotFollow

I was thinking about this as well but at the end of the day I think I'd stick to Martial. The thing that makes Martial shine is, of course, the TP bonus, which helps Detonator damage as well as Slug's accuracy.

From a quick glance at a few recent parses, it seems like it would take both the TP bonus (from Martial exclusively) and the 10% boost to Detonator damage (from Anarchy exclusively) for it to reliably pull ahead of Martial. You'd also lose the option to use Slug reliably using Anarchy and it would also, if just slightly, mean taking a hit to your QD damage with it's 1 less base damage.

Now if it worked like Quicksilver, where once it was unlocked could be used with any gun, that would be great.

Just speculation on my part but that's my take on it! I didn't do any extensive math on it or anything.

Edit: Woops, scratch that! The Detonator Anarchy also has DMG: +10 as well. That's interesting... Gotta rethink this now

Edited, Jul 12th 2010 2:23am by Solrain

I was wondering this too.. the Detonator +10% damage gun has 9 Base damage over martial plus the 10%..

Martial/Steel: 39+70= 109 total Base damage

Anarchy/Steel: 48+70= 118 total Base damage

Works out to be ~ 8.25% increase in base damage. This would also have to factor in if you are shooting at all and/or barraging. Plus, if the move is from Martial/Slug to Anarchy/Detonator, we can swap in full STR/RATT gear where we may normally put RACC. I am no math nut, but it seems promising.

You can do the Magnatus +8 dmg inside of 2 weeks. The only hurdle your gonna really hit is hotpot as its a 1-10 spawn but you can afk there in a group and still get the kill. You can do all the VNM's realistically in 2-3 days.

Lets break it down.

Bat NM: 1 hour repop 3 kills. 3 hours

Yag NM: 1 Hour repop as well with 3 kills, 1-3 hour window. 9 hours.

Quad NM: 1 hour repop 1-2 hour window with 3 kill. 6 hours.

Bugbear NM: 1 hour repop, Can double pop, 4 kills, 1-10 hour window. Realistically 5 hours.

Tiger NM: 1 hour repop, 4 kills, 4 hours.

Hotpot: 1 hour repop, 4 kill, 1-10 hour window, 25 hours about.

Yacumama: 1 hour repop, 6 kills, 3 zones killable, 2-6 hours.

Feuerunke: 1 hour repop, 6 kills, 2 zones killable, 3-6 hours.

Tammuz : 1 hour repop, 8 kills, 3 zones killable, 5-8 hours.


Thats around 72 hours if things go long. Most of which can be broken up fairly easily wihtin 2 weeks. Only thing you need a group for is the ram.

The only mob that requires any amount of skill are the VNMs. All the other nms are straight up engage and kill, no kiting or anything involved.

Pinning isnt that hard, infact it doesnt even require any skill. Also you can practice pinning with any mob. Ive outlined all the pinning stuff in another thread, so not knowing how is not an excuse when it really is something that is beyond easy. It doesnt get much easier then 2 steps left, 2 steps right quick draw when timers are up.

It took me 3 weeks to get my magnatus to dmg+8 and I worked on it in my free time between events and helping friends. So not exactly any hurdles there either.

Ya Dartagnann, I was averaging 100+ ws/hr so were talking 12hrs max (more if you have an m. kris, I had joytoy only).



I agree, I wouldn't advocate swapping guns mid-fight. My list was more from a stance of "in this event I'll need more X." The idea being before you start any event you have a decent idea of your racc, rattack, etc vs your particular target. It would be nice to have all those guns available for different situations.

The bottom line is the buffs on those guns are significant enough to drastically affect the rest of our gear, making mixing and matching gear sets much more flexible.

Thanks for the good input, everyone.

Currently, I'm on the spitfire path, on Hippogryphs now. I'll decide which way to go after that in a few weeks, once I see how hard it'll be to get Verthandi, those 2 NM items, and whether Quezalli is going to be an issue or not. Gotta admit, that is a damn fine-looking gun, though.

I would agree to this for everything except detonator.

Using my det build and a target with 75 Vit, I got the following numbers.

Let C = rattk/target def function

Martial/Steel: 310*C
----
Anarchy (Det)/Steel: 270*C
----
45 DMG gun/Steel: 241*C
----
Armageddon/Steel: 261*C
----

Martial is:

14.8% better than Anarchy (+10% Det)

28.6% better than 45 DMG guns

18.7% better than Armageddon


If Det is your go-to WS, martial is still the way to go. It would take a gun with a base damage of 90 to beat the fTP bonus on Martial.

For me, if I can melee it with anything resembling decent acc, I can land slug shot on it. In this case a high damage gun wins. But if I was /ra only on a target and I was hitting low racc, I'd prob use martial and Det.

The only reason EVER to use det is in a situation where your slug acc is too low to be practical. The point here isn't to compare Det vs other WS, it's to point out the importance of the fTP bonus on Detonator.

If you aren't using det, why would you care what gun is best for Det?



Martial will still win if the boost in WS damage will overcome the loss in damage during the TP phase. This is why SAM have been using Hagun for ages.

TP damage is much less complicated than WS damage to compare. Looking at a WS + 6 shot to 100 TP senario,

Damage = (Gun + Ammo + fSTR) * rattk function

Going to assume a lower fSTR value since /ra only is done on higher level targets. Also, going to assume a cratio of 1.5 for similar reasons.

--------

Martial: (39+70+10)*1.5 = 178

178 * 6 = 1068 Dmg TP phase

********

45 DMG gun: (45+70+10)*1.5 = 187

187 * 6 = 1122 Dmg TP phase

--------

WS Damage

cratio of 2.5 to account for rattk bonus on det
Higher fSTR due to higher acc on det allowing racc -> STR swaps

------
Martial: (39+70+15+25)*2.0*2.5

745 Dmg WS

745 + 1068 = 1813 Damage for TP/WS cycle

*****
45 Damage Gun: (45+70+15+25)*1.5*2.5

581 Dmg WS

581 + 1122 = 1703 damage for TP/WS cycle
--------

So the damage increase from the WS compensates for lower TP phase damage.

Now to stipulate, what else is on that 45 Damage gun?
If you can get enough Store TP to drop a shot to WS then that can allow more WS/fight allowing more damage.
If you have a Magian gun with RACC or RATTK or Occ Deals Double Damage, that will impact the comparison also.

Preemptive edit:

I just ran the numbers for a shooting only scenario with the + 10% Det damage Anarchy:

48 DMG gun: (48+70+10)*1.5 = 192

192 * 6 = 1152 Dmg TP phase

------

(48+70+15+25)*1.5*2.5*1.10

651 Dmg WS

651 + 1152 = 1803 damage for TP/WS cycle

That is almost equal with Martial. Considering the increase in damage on the occasional QD, looks like this would be a completely reasonable option.

------

So I'd say:

If you are melee -> WS

Don't use Det, use Slug Shot, but if you insist on Det, Martial will be the best option

-------

If you are /ra only -> WS

If you use a DMG 45 gun, make sure it overcomes the fTP on martial, 48DMG +10% det will be equal with Martial. But Slug and Numbing will be superior to Det unless racc is super low.

Slightly off topic (didn't want to start a new thread), but does anyone know which of the Sea Gorgets boosts Numbing Shot?

Also I agree. TP Bonus is going away. Can't fight the future.

-Ath