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What subjob for blue mageFollow

#1 Dec 01 2012 at 3:57 PM Rating: Decent
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When soloing, and when in parties? Please don't say "all jobs" I don't want to level all jobs. I read the wiki about this, but it seems to be information when lv75 was the cap.

My linkshell is saying ninja, but I really hate that job. I will level it, if I have to though.
#2 Dec 01 2012 at 10:54 PM Rating: Excellent
What level range are we talking about? Early on, Ninja and Dancer will be your normal subjobs, given that without them, you won't be able to Dual Wield, which does a lot for your kill speed. Ninja will also supply you with Utusemi, and Dancer would supply you with cures that can't be interrupted by melee attacks. Later on, once you've got access to the spells needed to set Dual Wield yourself, your subjob options open up a bit. Subbing Warrior, Red Mage, etc, are viable options, depending on the situation you're in.

In party situations, /Warrior is generally the better option, since you'll have access to Berserk, Aggressor, Warcry, and Double Attack for the sake of your melee attacks (your weaponskills especially) and you won't need to bother setting spells for the Double Attack trait. /Red Mage is good for more solo oriented situations, since it's good for MP regulation, Phalanx, En-spells, Bar-spells, Stoneskin, Aquaveil, etc.
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#3 Dec 02 2012 at 6:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
/Red Mage is good for more solo oriented situations, since it's good for MP regulation, Phalanx, En-spells, Bar-spells, Stoneskin, Aquaveil, etc.


Since the cure update /SCH has taken over as the "solo / support orientated" sub of choice. You get high levels of Healing / Enhancing magic skill due to light arts, access to -na / raise / reraise and Cure III. Stoneskin / Aquaveil along with 2 stratagems.
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#4 Dec 02 2012 at 1:55 PM Rating: Excellent
The Reraise and -na spells I'll give you more than anything, but I was meaning along the lines of being able to Convert if necessary, having access to Stoneskin/Aquaveil as well as Bar-spells, Phalanx, Fast Cast II, En-spells, and Cure IV. I personally prefer what /Red Mage gives over /Sch just because of those aforementioned spells/abilities/traits that Scholar doesn't have, though I can see the reasons for using /Scholar over /Red Mage in some situations.
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#5 Dec 02 2012 at 2:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Thank you everyone. Very helpful to this new blue mage returning to the game.

I have an offtopic question, today I reached level 40, and gained the ability to self skill chain. I'm having a hard time with interrupts though. It seems that when I try to magic burst, I'm almost always interrupted when casting Bomb Toss. I can see why people sub ninja now, to avoid interrupts?

However, I want to follow the advice in this thread and sub RDM, will aquaveil help me to avoid interrupts, or is "solo skill chaining" more of a party activity?

Thanks for your input!

-Miq
#6 Dec 02 2012 at 3:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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The important part of the solo skillchain is the WS >> Physical spell with Chain Affinity. Missing your bomb toss is no big deal, and actually casting it in the first place probably lowers your kill speed (or at the very least, risks slowing it down, since you'll very likely get interrupted)

Red Lotus to CA+Sickle Slash can be useful for MB BA+MP Drainkiss though, assuming you find yourself kneeling for MP too often.

I don't advise using /ninja (or utsusemi for that matter) when soloing in this day and age. Go with or stick to dancer as a all-purpose subjob.

As for /RDM, it will be a great choice later on, but won't really help much at your point. Workable, if that's all you have to availlable to you.

Edited, Dec 2nd 2012 4:54pm by Docent42
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#7 Dec 02 2012 at 3:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Sorry, what do the acronyms in your post stand for? Also, are you saying its not worth magic bursting with bomb toss because I'm going to be interrupted?
#8 Dec 02 2012 at 4:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Miquote wrote:
Sorry, what do the acronyms in your post stand for?

WS is for WeaponSkill, things like Fast Blade, Red Lotus Blade (RLB) and such.
CA is for Chain Affinity,
BA for Burst Affinity.
MB for Magic Burst
MP is for Mana Point.

Miquote wrote:
Also, are you saying its not worth magic bursting with bomb toss because I'm going to be interrupted?

Precisely. Blue mage's magic spells are pretty underwhelming for the most part, and even when bursted on skillchains (Your own or someone else's) they usually fail to impress (MP inefficient, Low damage for the slow casting time, etc.)

Some utility magic burst (Like MP Drainkiss) can actually be worth it, especially to save time in the long run.
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#9 Dec 02 2012 at 4:14 PM Rating: Decent
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I see, thank you for clearing that up! It's confusing being new, you get mixed advice from multiple sources. Wiki is dated, or Linkshell have their own opinions on whats best, etc.

One last question, I actually learned MP Drainkiss by accident today while trying to learn Grand Slam in qufim. Does it only return MP from 'caster' mobs?
#10 Dec 02 2012 at 4:24 PM Rating: Excellent
Aquaveil would definitely help in avoiding interruptions, because Aquaveil will prevent you from getting interrupted (barring a knock back attack, a stun, etc) as long as the attack doesn't cause Aquaveil to drop.

I do the whole solo skillchain no matter what monster I'm fighting, be it solo or a party situation, but as far as magic bursting I really don't bother, since most of the good magic nukes for Blu are somewhat long casting, and the timing has to be pretty spot on for it to land.
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#11 Dec 02 2012 at 4:31 PM Rating: Good
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http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/30626/the-beast-within-a-guide-to-blue-mage/
This is aimed at level 99.
However, it is really a fantastic bluemage guide.
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#12 Dec 02 2012 at 4:35 PM Rating: Decent
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So how does MP drain work?
#13 Dec 02 2012 at 4:51 PM Rating: Good
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Miquote wrote:
So how does MP drain work?

Like you suggested earlier, you can only Drain MP from enemies that have them. This means caster beastmen/deamons, or a couple of monsters, like worms, beetles or crabs (The later two are considered Paladins by the game) and a select other few (Buffalos, I hear, are paladins as well?)

The spell is wildly unpredictable, somewhat like BLM and DRK's drain and aspir spells. It produce normally anywhere from 8 to 120 mp per cast.
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#14 Dec 03 2012 at 3:37 AM Rating: Default
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Professor Shock Vlorsutes wrote:
The Reraise and -na spells I'll give you more than anything, but I was meaning along the lines of being able to Convert if necessary, having access to Stoneskin/Aquaveil as well as Bar-spells, Phalanx, Fast Cast II, En-spells, and Cure IV. I personally prefer what /Red Mage gives over /Sch just because of those aforementioned spells/abilities/traits that Scholar doesn't have, though I can see the reasons for using /Scholar over /Red Mage in some situations.


/sch um sch gets stoneskin anyway. and we get white windand wolf spell what will both beat out cure 4. Convert, sorry a real blu won't use convert. and who wants C or B- rating in magic

The value of sch is the high. B+ all magic fields. You are a MP leech mage. You get rerase, You can drain. Your cure and darkness magic can equal 500 or close to it with /sch but never as rdm.

The true power of sch though is the fact it saves you many points. The GM notes stone skin. Well if you have that you don't need metallic body. You can drain and aspir at a high level so you don't need MP drainkiss. you have all cure spells of affects for the most part as well as erase, so no need to set an erase spell. You get sleep and oe sleep so no need to set those. So sch's true power is in point conservation. And on many nuke spells you can cast weather affect upon yourself to get the benefit of it as well. And lets not forget kliform. . And blink.


#15 Dec 03 2012 at 7:00 AM Rating: Excellent
kimjongil76 wrote:
Professor Shock Vlorsutes wrote:
The Reraise and -na spells I'll give you more than anything, but I was meaning along the lines of being able to Convert if necessary, having access to Stoneskin/Aquaveil as well as Bar-spells, Phalanx, Fast Cast II, En-spells, and Cure IV. I personally prefer what /Red Mage gives over /Sch just because of those aforementioned spells/abilities/traits that Scholar doesn't have, though I can see the reasons for using /Scholar over /Red Mage in some situations.


/sch um sch gets stoneskin anyway. and we get white windand wolf spell what will both beat out cure 4. Convert, sorry a real blu won't use convert. and who wants C or B- rating in magic

The value of sch is the high. B+ all magic fields. You are a MP leech mage. You get rerase, You can drain. Your cure and darkness magic can equal 500 or close to it with /sch but never as rdm.

The true power of sch though is the fact it saves you many points. The GM notes stone skin. Well if you have that you don't need metallic body. You can drain and aspir at a high level so you don't need MP drainkiss. you have all cure spells of affects for the most part as well as erase, so no need to set an erase spell. You get sleep and oe sleep so no need to set those. So sch's true power is in point conservation. And on many nuke spells you can cast weather affect upon yourself to get the benefit of it as well. And lets not forget kliform. . And blink.




White Wind costs you nearly twice as much MP as Cure IV, so for the sake of MP efficiency I wouldn't recommend that unless you're in a party situation and several people need heals. Besides, Saevel specifically mentioned Cure III, which is why I responded with mentioning that /RDM gives Cure IV, which /SCH doesn't offer. I don't know what situations you're in where you would never need Convert, but I personally have been in several situations where I'm taxing my MP to the point that Convert has been a life saver.

Even with having the ability to cast Erase, you should keep Winds of Promy. set anyway, since not only is it an AoE Erase (if you're in a party situation) but it also is one of the better spells to have set for the Auto-Refresh trait. In a situation where you need an AoE sleep quickly, you're going to want to have Dream Flower or some other Blu "Sleepga" handy anyway, since it'll take you less time to cast Dream Flower than it'd take you to cast Manifestation + Sleep (or even worse, need to switch to Dark Arts, then Manifestation + Sleep).

The majority of Blue Mage's best nuking spells are Thunder and Darkness based, which /SCH doesn't offer the proper -Storm for (/SCH offers Hailstorm at best), so that's pretty irrelevant when it comes to nuking. Not to mention going /SCH means you're losing out on Magic Attack Bonus II trait. Sure you can set MAB I trait through spells, but again, it ends up costing you spell slots, which you say /SCH is better at mitigating.

Klimaform, for the aforementioned reason that they don't have access to the corresponding -Storm, would be situational at best (situational in that they'd need to have an existing Thunder or Darkness weather in the region).

A Blue Mage should be using max skill Occultation over Blink any day, since the moment you're able to learn it, you'd have access to several more shadows from it than the two shadows you'd get from Blink. Not to mention Occultation has a far shorter cast time than Blink does.

You're also forgetting that by going /SCH over /RDM, you're losing out on Fast Cast, which is a significant loss. Yes, you can set Fast Cast I through spells, but that's a minimum of 6 points to set an inferior level of Fast Cast from what you can gain normally.

It could easily be argued that you might need to allocate more points to compensate for what you'd lose going /SCH over /RDM. You'd have to use 6 points for an inferior Fast Cast and 3 points for an inferior Magic Attack Bonus. If you wanted, you could also drop Battery Charge for the Refresh you're getting /RDM, which has a shorter duration but gives you the same MP/tic for another 3 points freed up.

Then there's still the fact that /SCH doesn't offer Bar-spells of any sort (I know they won't make a significant difference, but they could still take the edge off magic damage if you get a partial resist), En-spells to add a bit of extra damage during your TP phase, Phalanx (even though Barrier Tusk counts as Phalanx, its damage mitigation is % based, making it arguably less suitable for lower damage attacks), and the ability to not be penalized by casting a spell of the other magic arts (As /SCH, you'd either have to swap to a different Arts, which would take time, or take the increased cast time and MP cost penalty).

I'm not saying /SCH doesn't have some uses to it, but given my experiences with it, /RDM offers far more and is far more flexible of a subjob for those situations where you're wanting to use a mage subjob.
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#16 Dec 03 2012 at 6:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Vlor you need to take the recent healing skill adjustment into considering. /RDM doesn't give anywhere near enough healing magic to make Cure IV useful. /SCH gets LA which gives a fully powered Cure III, considerably cheaper MP:HP ratio. Also barspells and other enhancing magic are gimped to high heaven as /RDM due to limited enhancing, though stoneskin isn't hard to cap with enough MND.

BLU/RDM
139 Healing Magic Skill
144 Enhancing Magic Skill

BLU/SCH
370 Healing Magic Skill
370 Enhancing Magic Skill

You'll get a fully powered Aquaveil which I've found invaluable when I ~need~ to get a sleep, cure off or whisker off.

The two primary cures would be Magic Fruit and Cure III, using Cure IV @139 skill is not very efficient.

MAB I costs exactly 1 spell point as you have flower set anyway. MAB II is only +4 MAB over MAB I which is itself +20 MAB.

Anyhow for solo situations it's really a toss up, for a party setup /SCH easily. I've met many BLU's who were incredibly resistant until they actually gave it a fair shot, it requires a slightly different play style. It's the old WHM/BLM vs WHM/SMN, and then WHM/RDM vs WHM/SCH debates.

Something I forgot to mention earlier was the effects of DA. LA/DA don't effect Blue Magic directly and as such you can freely switch between the two modes with little to no impact on your primary spells. DA gives you 404 dark magic skill along with Aspir / Drain, completely replaces MP drainkiss for aspirable targets.

-=Edit=-
Ok some healing values. Earlier I had posted 404 skill as thats what the calculator gave me, after logging in and manually checking it's wrong and 370 is what should be there.
My Cure Macro has the following totals
Now I don't have the best set but it's more then serviceable.

/SCH +LA
MND= 144
VIT=97
Skill=370+10
Cure Potency = 30% (With Sanus)

Cure II = 172, 7.81 HP:MP ratio
Cure III = 383, 9.11 HP:MP ratio
M.Fruit = 681, 9.45 HP:MP ratio
P.Embrace = 824, 7.77 HP:MP ratio
Regen II = 240, 7.27 HP:MP ratio (just for demonstration)

/RDM
MND= 146
VIT= 97
Skill= 139+10
Cure Potency = 30% (With Sanus)

Cure II = 148, 6.16 HP:MP ratio
Cure III = 309, 6.71 HP:MP ratio
Cure IV = 549, 6.23 HP:MP ratio
M.Fruit = 650, 9.02 HP:MP ratio
P.Embrace = 793, 7.48 HP:MP ratio

That should highlight the raw difference between the healing power of /SCH vs /RDM. All without including -na's (BLU already has a better erase). /RDM's barspell is +68 ME, though you can raise it by 1 for every 5 enhancing magic. Phalanx is 12 damage absorbed but goes up by 1 per 10 enhancing skill. Stoneskin is capable by either sub, though /SCH has it auto-capped and /RDM needs ~130 MND (not hard to get) to cap @144 skill.

Also this should highlight why M.Fruit is vastly more preferably then either Cure IV or P.Embrace. It's 72MP for a 650~681 cure vs 88MP Cure IV (549 HP) and 106MP for a 793~824 Embrace. After Fruit a fully powered Cure III is the next up at 42MP for 383HP.

Edited, Dec 4th 2012 12:00pm by saevellakshmi

Edited, Dec 4th 2012 12:04pm by saevellakshmi
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lolgaxe wrote:
Nothing in this game is impossible if you set yourself to the task of actually doing it. Even dumb people can only hold you back for so long.


Lucinus wrote:
when you're hefting something that deadly, you don't miss - mobs get the @#%^ out of the way instead...
#17 Dec 04 2012 at 2:18 AM Rating: Decent
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For solo fights like KS30, and KCNM fights, /sch can shine. if you are going to serg, Metelic body or stoneskin + sublimgation equal a good chunk of convert without sacerficeing any HP.

And the cure + dispel is very nice. Not to mention, with /Sch, I can AoE stoneskin, paralina, and such. Whatever I do I perfer the 400+ magic rateing plus gear skill ups over something below 200 skill. Access o some /rdm spells is usless if the skill is so low.


The nice thing about blu is you can totaly custimize it to your play style. Hence no right or wrong way to play it. So few jobs offer this chance. Blu, Sch, Pup are really the only three.


#18 Jun 29 2013 at 3:23 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
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I prefer /dnc. It gives you infinite healing and infinite mp. It gives you haste, drain I, II, and aspir samba.I do not think that convert works for blu. Their defense is only real good if your mp allows you to use occultation, which costs a lot. The only time dnc does not come in handy is when you are using up too much tp when healing yourself. I like to sub thf when in a pt. For sneak attack.
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