Regarding haste gear in DRG burnsFollow

I'd like to point out that using certain pieces of haste gear, namely walahra turban and swift belt, in specific DRG burn parties is a bad idea. The specific burn parties are those that don't have a RDM or WHM (why would you) or BRD. Note that this means you have no outside form of haste, all haste is from your gear. Also note that this is all assuming uncapped acc, so is mostly for use by not so pimped out DRGs.

Here is my reasoning:

Ohat provides 10 acc. If this increases your acc % from 90 to 95, you get a 5.56% ( 95/90 = 1.0555555... ) increase in total dmg. W.Turban gives 5% haste. With no other haste gear, that is a 5.26% ( 100 / 95 = 1.05263158 ) increase in total dmg. It would required having 5% haste prior to equiping W.Turban to be even with Ohat at 90% acc.

Life belt provides 10 acc. If this increases your acc % from 90 to 95, you get a 5.56% ( 95/90 = 1.0555555... ) increase in total dmg (same as above). Swift belt provides 3 acc and 4% haste. Assuming you have a 90% hit rate and no other haste gear, this will provide a ~5.9% ( 100/96 * 91.5/90 = 1.05902778 ) increase in total dmg (some reduction due to the -atk). This is better than life belt at 90% acc. They are both about even at just over 6.0% total dmg increase at 83% acc, assuming no other haste. Lower acc than this, life belt will win.

So for most DRGs, even those with little acc gear, swift will beat life belt (i have 2 acc rings,fowling, chiv chain, life belt, and full pole merits and get about 90% acc on colibri).
NOTE THAT the 4% haste is not enough to make W.Turban beat Ohat (assuming that the swift acc+ puts you at 90% acc, if swift puts you over 90%, then W.Turban wins), especially if your acc % is less than 90%. So stop using only W.Turban and Swift belt. Swap that W.Turban to your OHat.

REMEMBER, THIS IS ONLY IN CASES WHERE THERE IS NO OUTSIDE HASTE, I.E. SOLO AND IN DRG BURNS.


A useful observation:

When trading acc for haste (like with Ohat and W.Turban)

Let H1 = 100 - your current haste. (4 % haste would be 96)
Let A1 = your current acc % (hit rate).
Let A2 = your acc % after adding a piece of gear.
Let H2 = 100 - your haste after adding a piece of gear.

If H1 > A2 and A2-A1 >= H1-H2 then go with the acc.

For example, swaping Ohat for W.turban as above:

H1=100
A1=90
H2=95
A2=95

since 100 > 95 and 95-90 >= 100-95 we can see that Ohat is the better choice.

This originates from the way to calculate increase in dmg from acc and haste. Haste is calculated as H1/H2 (100 / 95 = 1.05263158). Acc is calculated as A2/A1 (95/90 = 1.0555555...).

Go throw this knowledge at those bandwagon SAMs w/ only W.Turban and sucking on acc.

Correct me if i made a mistake or two.

man, now i really need to go get a swift belt and stop drg burning in W.turban

well yeah, but IMO that much homam takes you out of the "not so pimped" catagory. I'm talking more to those who are in certain combinations of turban, AJ/Askar/SH, Tarrasque/Relic/dusk, life/swift, barone/aurum, amir/tabin/savage/askar

The rule of thumb was you'ed need X(I think it was 10) amount of haste before it would become viable w/o some sort of outside haste. With /sam and with dusk W turban swift belt and homam why wouldn't you build a haste set?

You'ed need to have as veg put it around 83-84% to make replacing the haste gear w/ acc gear. DRG being the second most accurate job in the game I'm not all that worried about it.

Interesting post though. You just haven't been around long enough to have known the 10% haste or bust stuff which is old now a days any way. May not even apply.

This game has changed to many @#%^ing times.

So who's buying the new Beatles rerererererelease?
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Actually, it's not -- 95/90 > 100/95, so O.Hat wins if you're getting the benefit of all its Accuracy.

Of course, usually we throw in at least Dusk hands as well, so it's a little moot.

The rest, as ever, is spot-on.

Edited, Sep 10th 2009 10:22am by Lucinus

I don't quite agree, because we're looking at swings rather than hits here. In such an instance, we'd be looking at either capped or theoretical perfect accuracy, in which cases O.Hat is already redundant.

Although, in a DRG burn, you wouldn't go in with only 5% Haste anyway so it's moot.

Edited, Sep 10th 2009 10:36am by Lucinus

The 10 haste or bust idea is what i am talking about. It got refuted because you almost always have outside haste, but i am talking about no outside haste. Lets say, like me, your only haste gear is dusk hands and W.Turban. In the case of no outside haste and not /sam, Ohat would win over W.Turban because i only have 3% haste before W.Turban and Ohat would not put me over the acc cap. Now if i also had dusk feet, then i would wear W.Turban all the time. Like i said, this is advice for the not so pimped DRGs that may not have access to Limbus/speed belt.

10 haste or bust is silly when applied to other EQ slots because there isn't anything that can match the haste gear for those slots, but OHat and W.Turban are nearly matched. Even w/ dusk gloves, 97/92 < 95/90. And regarding colibri stealing food, I made a point that this is only for DRG burn w/ no outside haste ( 6 DRG or x DRG + DD or 1 COR in the mix) or solo. I personally have never been in a DRG burn on anything but colibri, and solo i don't usually eat food anyways, not that i solo much outside of campaign anymore. I'm not trying to start a fight, but in cases of no outside haste and deciding between Ohat and W.Turban, if you get the full benefit from Ohat, you MUST have atleast 10% haste w/ W.Turban for them to be equal. I guess you can ignore the comment about SAMs b/c i forgot about hasso haste.

If you take the ever so common DRG in STR rings, warwolf belt, random other gear, and W.Turban, they certainly don't have enough acc to merit W.Turban over Ohat w/ no outside haste.

Maybe this is too application specific to be of use, or it's a bit too complex a scenario to get across with text.

Ultimately what i'm trying to say is that, for a run of the mill DRG w/o much endgame gear (not many of the frequent posters, but probably more of the lurkers), when in a situation where you don't have outside haste or hasso, Ohat is probably better than W.Turban.

I personally use:

Thal/pole/empty/tiphia
turban/chiv/fowling/spike
askar/dusk/woods/woods
amemet+1/life/barone/savage

I havn't beaten CoP yet, so no rajas/af+1/brutal
I was told back when i got my askar that askar > AJ > SH. maybe that has changed since SH > AJ now. I'm like 90% certain that i have a fake 6 hit, atleast from my experience in dynamis, but i'm probably getting hit sometimes there. If i should switch back to AJ or SH, just let me know.
Don't have access to amir/paluwan b/c everyone i know who wants an assault static either wants nyzul only, already has one, or can't be bothered to give me enough information to organize it, and nobody shouts for assaults besides leujam and nyzul. I should get Tabin +1 in the meantime, they just slipped my mind for so long.
Havn't had any luck with askar legs, and i wouldn't call this "low cost" considering how infrequent drops are.

That puts me at -13 acc behind your proposed EQ, i'm also a mithra so i imagine that makes up for the rajas dex. So i'd be at about 85% on 82 and 88% on 81 birds.

Yes i'm making excuses, but they are legit. I know quite a few other DRGs with less acc than I. Maybe you've forgotten or never experienced what it's like to be stalled in content or be a more casual player. The only EG i do right now is dynamis. No sky or sea access yet; i just don't spend a whole lot of time in game these days with school and other stuff.

If you have under 85% acc on colibri, then you need to skillup your polearm to cap, or stop weaing Full AF.

yep mithra base /sam 72Dex, 72Str with 5/5 str merits... (70/70 on /rdm)... so sweet lol.

In the twilight of my meriting days I preferred Drg burns over any other just because it was my pleasure. I found the best burns included a Haste mage (that's all they were req. to cast + melee or whatever) and/or a bard to make up for the lvl74 drgs I'd inv or the poorly geared ones. This ensured smooth chaining(infinite) and a fast pace. I don't really think a proper merits Drg-burn is complete w/o some sort of buffing.

if you're going to add a rdm for haste only, you may aswell add a brd+cor for buffs aswell.

In fact, at that point you may aswell just make all the drgs sub /sam instead of /mage.

My dinging-75 PT on rdm was 3Drg/Sam, Cor/Rng Cor/Nin Rdm/Whm (Brd was sh*t, no other brd available so got 2nd cor, very good puller). Rolls were Corsair/Chaos/Rogues/Samurai or Fighters. All had Drakesbane.

One drg was from my LS and very well geared, but the other two were mediocre at best (though had askar body and basic haste gear like dusk gloves + turban, and had WS swaps. So they weren't "gimp", they were doing it right, just didn't have the endgame gear yet). Anyway, even with 2 mediocre drgs, we still averaged 27k/hr without wivre. And that's measured on my composure timer, not expwatch (exp watch said 38k at peak rofl).

Seriously, get 3 drgs, 3 support (rdm brd cor, rdm brd brd, whatever) and you tear sh*t up so fast, even if the drgs aren't exceptionally geared.

also in a drg burn, galka wars and sams as a focus for damage are awesome

A good WHM/SCH getting ballad can more than adequately handle a merit pt. I was going full Hasso and we had no MP problems.