Next STP Trait and some other stuffFollow

Its really all about the STP. Will ease up gear selection slightly, and help some obtain a 5HIT who are missing selected pieces of gear.

Yeah, this will make a 5 hit much easier for me to obtain once I finish my Keito+2. This and the ninja adjustment are both very exciting.

So the question is whether 5/5 Zanshin merits would give you more TP over time than 5/5 Meditate merits. Let's say a Zanshin proc with Ikishoten gives 40 Bonus TP. Also, lets say Meditate gives you 140 TP, since its very easy to get AF head and Relic hands now and we will assume that is standard gear.

Normal unmerited Meditate = 140 TP / 3 mins = 46.7 TP/min
5/5 merited Meditate = 140 TP / 2.5 mins = 56 TP/min
So you get 9.3 more TP/min with 5/5 Meditate as opposed to 0/5.

For checking the value of Zanshin merits, let's assume a 450 delay GKT and 95% hit rate. We don't know the base Zanshin proc rate on normal swings yet, so we will just call this number X. Assume 45% proc rate on misses, 50% with 5/5 Zanshin rate merits. Let's look at a "worst case" haste scenario and say you wear 0 Haste gear. This means your only haste is from Hasso. That means you swing once every 6.75 seconds = .1125 min. Assume 5-hit build and assume 4/5 Ikishoten merits (40 TP return on Zanshin swing land).

Normal unmerited Zanshin TP Rate = (20TP/0.1125min)*(0.95) + (40TP/0.1125min)*(X)*(0.95) + (40TP/0.1125min)*(0.05)*(0.45)*(0.95) = 168.9 TP/min + 337.8 TP/min*(X) + 7.6TP/min = 176.5 TP/min + 355.6 TP/min*(X)

Now with 5/5 merits the proc rate becomes X+0.05 on normal swings, and .5 on misses.

Merited Zanshin TP Rate = (20TP/0.1125min)*(0.95) + (40TP/0.1125min)*(X+0.05)*(0.95) + (40TP/0.1125min)*(0.05)*(0.5)*(0.95) = 168.9 TP/min + 337.8 TP/min*(X) + 16.9 TP/min + 8.4TP/min = 194.2 TP/min + 355.6 TP/min*(X)

Subtract the difference and you get 17.7 TP/min more with Zanshin merits. Remember, that is worst case. More haste will mean more overall Zanshin swings. So even in the worst case, it would seem that Zanshin merits will beat out Meditate hands down. The only thing we need to see is if SE makes Zanshin merits only apply to misses. If it applies to landed hits with Hasso as well, its time to roll those Meditate merits into Zanshin rate.

Edit: Fixed some numbers.

Edited, Jun 3rd 2011 12:34pm by JaxReborn

Thanks for doing the math for us Jax, that is definitely an interesting result. I hadn't thought about the full implications of this change before, but right now it sounds like it is time to switch those merits out. I won't be able to get to it for a week anyway though, so there's time for more info to roll in.

Going to extend my analysis for a range of Haste situations. Basically I do exactly the same thing as before, just change the Haste value I used.

Haste:Gained TP/min with Zanshin Merits vs No Zanshin Merits
10%:17.7
15%:18.7
20%:20.0
25%:21.2
30%:22.8
35%:24.6
40%:26.6
45%:29.0
50%:31.9
55%:35.5
60%:39.9
65%:45.6
70%:53.2
75%:63.8
80%:79.8

So you can see, the more Haste you have the better and better Zanshin merits become. Double attack gear will kind of negate some of this, as a Zanshin cannot proc during a Double Attack, but you shouldn't be able to reach high enough values of Double Attack that Meditate merits can win out. Considering that Meditate merits gives a static maximum of 9.3TP/min more (neglecting the occasional 120 or 160 TP return), Zanshin rate merits are much much better after this update.

Edited, Jun 3rd 2011 9:23pm by JaxReborn

Will be very interesting for Masamune SAMs. Since a 6hit is already better then a 5hit, you can lose all your stp merits with the new trait. Cap Zanshin, Ikitoshenm meditate and overwelm and you have a TP machine.

Masa/sword//threw
Zelus/unkai/unkai/brutal
juogi(+1)/dusk+1/rajas/hoard
Atheling/bullwhip/unkai+2/aces

Capped haste, sword, 6hit.

I just can't imagine they give us a 45% base Zanshin rate on Hasso when we don't miss. Consider that without any double attacks, a 45% Haste SAM using a 450 delay GKT with a 5-hit build and 4/5 Ikishoten and 0/5 Zanshin rate will get 288.8 TP/min on average (neglecting WS delays, Conserve TP returns, etc). If you have a 45% Zanshin proc rate on your hits, you would be getting an additional 236.3 TP/min, which is coming up on doubling our TP gain rate. That would seem to be close to broken (although I wouldn't mind :D). I would guess it would be something more like 5-10% base rate, with each piece of Enhances Zanshin gear giving 1-3% more. That would already be a large upgrade in our performance.

I think this is the bottom line. You both make excellent points, and while I am more inclined to agree with Jax, I don't think Sand is wrong either. SE has been known to make things overpowered in the past, and SAM is overdue for some balancing to revitalize it and make it competitive again. Only time will tell what they actually have in mind for us.

[img=http://beast40.com/FFXI/SAM/samdrg.png]

[img=http://beast40.com/FFXI/SAM/samdrgmerits.png]


Had some fun tonight setting up SAM for tomorrow. If Zanshin rate stays the same /drg could be quite potent. I should be 3stp heavy after tomorrows trait update but not sure how to tweak yet. /DRK could be good too, esp on new content outside abyssea.

Ofcourse I could be totally wrong....we will find out tomorrow.

well, acording to the patch notes, there seems to be no job update today. :/ thats weird since they said "next version update", i hope im wrong.

Edit: yeah no job update, yonin and inin still share a recast timer.

Edited, Jun 6th 2011 2:30pm by KaynofTitan

that was indeed quite weird. there's a topic about it on the lolofficial forums i believe.

i know what you mean, and sadly, this was a version update, not a "Major" version update i agree.

but take a look at the original post.

Link: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/9406-June-6-2011-Version-Update

so technically, SE kind of messed up XD

so etiher this was mistakenly called a version update, or the original notes should have read "... on the next Major Version update...", either or, we are left to just wonder.

for reals. :/