Hey guys, I've been reading these forums for quite some time in order to get to know as much as I could about the job ever since I decided I wanted to level it to 75, as I like to know my jobs inside out or at least as well as I possibly can.
So from what I've picked up I thought I knew pretty much what I was doing on SAM, but lately a few things have made me question that. I was of the opinion for example that YGK had a massive boost to ACC/ATT and that therefore I focused entirely on STR, and also therefore assumed that for the majority of mobs (barring very high defence ones such as gods) /WAR Berserk would do almost nothing for my weapon skills. As a result for most things I also assumed that the best damage for me would come from /DRG with wyvern earring for 25% haste.
Recently however I've got in a few debates with other SAMs about this. First of all an old friend who has a very decked out SAM (and also usually comes /DRG) told me that the best body piece for WS was not KO but Hauby +1 as he said that I was wrong about the ACC boost and he said Hauby was thus better for the ACC. As I write I'm about to do A Moogle Kupo d'Etat 10 and one SAM I'm doing it with disagreed with me about lots of things, not least he basically said the whole ACC/ATT boost thing was rubbish.
They also both mentioned tests by Rukenshin which I havent read but have heard a lot about.
Can anyone shed some light on this? Who is right?
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A few questionsFollow
[Ragnarok]
Kalessin: DRG75 SAM75 BLU75 BST75
Heph: SCH70
Kalessin: DRG75 SAM75 BLU75 BST75
Heph: SCH70
Generally speaking, urdoinit wrong if you load up ACC on your WS set. Exceptions (Gods, maybe a THF NM, that Dhalmel from MMM) exist, but for the most part your focus should be solely on STR. Some testing was done over on BG that seems to corroborate this. I'm a bit pressed for time, so I can't find a link to the accuracy testing but a quote on that thread alludes to it as well:
Hardly definitive, but it's easily repeated with a few blinding potions and a parser. Search around BG for the actual parse results, or I'll find them and post them later.
One final note: your friend is correct about the Hauby+1 being the best piece for WS if you're Pentaspamming. I don't believe there's any piece in the game that more perfectly compliments the modifiers for Penta Thrust while adding equal (or any) amounts of ACC and Attack.
Edit: More concrete proof of the actual accuracy bonus was a bit more difficult to track down than I anticipated. Wiki states:
But I did manage to track down the post in the thread regarding the Attack Boost to Y/G/K with a chart for reference here.
Edited, Aug 14th 2009 3:01pm by Beltenebros
Quote:
As for the accuracy bonus discussion in the other thread, I don't remember if I already said this or not but I did a quick test about YGK acc bonus using a stack of blinding potions on Lesser Colibris with Soboro.
My Hit Rate was ~30% while my WS Acc was 80-85% (only 30 WSs performed, but enough to give a rough estimation) which seems to be a 50% hit rate bonus or an Accuracy+100 bonus.... imo, enough not to worry about acc in almost all situations.
My Hit Rate was ~30% while my WS Acc was 80-85% (only 30 WSs performed, but enough to give a rough estimation) which seems to be a 50% hit rate bonus or an Accuracy+100 bonus.... imo, enough not to worry about acc in almost all situations.
Hardly definitive, but it's easily repeated with a few blinding potions and a parser. Search around BG for the actual parse results, or I'll find them and post them later.
One final note: your friend is correct about the Hauby+1 being the best piece for WS if you're Pentaspamming. I don't believe there's any piece in the game that more perfectly compliments the modifiers for Penta Thrust while adding equal (or any) amounts of ACC and Attack.
Edit: More concrete proof of the actual accuracy bonus was a bit more difficult to track down than I anticipated. Wiki states:
Quote:
In general, multi-hit Weapon Skills have the highest damage potential, but single-hit weapon skills are also capable of causing large amounts of damage due to their accurate nature. Note: The first hit of all single hit and multi hit melee WSs (and most ranged WSs with notable exceptions such as Sidewinder/Slug Shot) have capped accuracy by default, even on very high level and evasive targets.
But I did manage to track down the post in the thread regarding the Attack Boost to Y/G/K with a chart for reference here.
Edited, Aug 14th 2009 3:01pm by Beltenebros
As far as I know Ruk never did any WS pdif/acc test ing (although he has written several other great SAM posts, my fav being on SAM/DRG), here is a link to the original testing we did that clearly shows a massive acc bonus and at least some sort of +atk/cratio/ratio/pdif change. The BG thread shown above has more theories on the exact nature of the later change, but take it with a grain of salt (several of the tests try to draw conclusions way beyond the spec of their data + variance, have assumptions that aren't ness. valid).
You're right to focus on /DRG+haste, and all out STRSTRSTR+DA on WS for YGK (KO being the best YGK body). For top teir stuff make sure you're getting proper buffs/food/debuffs and you'll still do great.
You're right to focus on /DRG+haste, and all out STRSTRSTR+DA on WS for YGK (KO being the best YGK body). For top teir stuff make sure you're getting proper buffs/food/debuffs and you'll still do great.
Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
What about the ATT? I've never found that Berserk made much difference if any to YGK but has anyone done any conclusive testing on this?
Edited, Aug 14th 2009 3:29pm by KalessinMC
Edited, Aug 14th 2009 3:29pm by KalessinMC
[Ragnarok]
Kalessin: DRG75 SAM75 BLU75 BST75
Heph: SCH70
Kalessin: DRG75 SAM75 BLU75 BST75
Heph: SCH70
KalessinMC wrote:
What about the ATT? I've never found that Berserk made much difference if any to YGK but has anyone done any conclusive testing on this?
Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
Quote:
What about the ATT? I've never found that Berserk made much difference if any to YGK but has anyone done any conclusive testing on this?
It's all pretty much in the links (specifically the one with the chart linked again here) Check them out, read up and down the thread, and it should answer most every question you should have about the utility of 'zerk for WSing on SAM.
For example, if you agree with Araelus' postulation, Berserk would be helpful against Greater Colibri if it brought your attack to the ~575 level to cap Y/K. 'course, it's all kinda a moot point if you have a decent Polearm build in a bird camp... heh.
Beltenebros wrote:
Quote:
What about the ATT? I've never found that Berserk made much difference if any to YGK but has anyone done any conclusive testing on this?
It's all pretty much in the links (specifically the one with the chart linked again here) Check them out, read up and down the thread, and it should answer most every question you should have about the utility of 'zerk for WSing on SAM.
For example, if you agree with Araelus' postulation, Berserk would be helpful against Greater Colibri if it brought your attack to the ~575 level to cap Y/K. 'course, it's all kinda a moot point if you have a decent Polearm build in a bird camp... heh.
Quote:
I don't believe in good guys versus bad guys anymore… I only see a plethora of states acting in self interest… with varying ethics and moral standards of course, but self-interest nonetheless
Winston Churchill wrote:
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things
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