In B4 we punch we Ho-oh. Looks cool though, curious to see the stats soon. Wonder if its multi element. Actually I like the idea of punching with the power of the gods.
Edited, Nov 30th 2011 2:20pm by Silvra
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Shijin SpiralFollow
I hope life is not a joke, if it is, I don't get it.
MNK 90, BLU 90, SMN 90
MNK 90, BLU 90, SMN 90
Scholar
46 posts
From test server:
Shijin Spiral
Five hit WS. Additional Effect: Plague. Chance of Plague varies with TP.
Modifier: DEX 17%/34%/51%/68%/85% depending on merits (actually the initial modifier is not known, so I'll just assume here that it starts at 17%, same as the incremental improvements).
Has fire elemental icon (though unknown if it is a magical WS).
Makes Light with Apex Arrow.
Looks absolutely badass, with a random phoenix like fire bird sweeping through out of nowhere at the end.
Test server went into maintenance before I could get too many damage numbers, but the first few was around ~1200 on Ru'aun Gardens Sand Sweepers at level 99, DMG 34 weapon, with around 113 DEX, 132 STR, 704 attack and 1 merit into WS.
Edited, Nov 30th 2011 10:31pm by Deswolf
Shijin Spiral
Five hit WS. Additional Effect: Plague. Chance of Plague varies with TP.
Modifier: DEX 17%/34%/51%/68%/85% depending on merits (actually the initial modifier is not known, so I'll just assume here that it starts at 17%, same as the incremental improvements).
Has fire elemental icon (though unknown if it is a magical WS).
Makes Light with Apex Arrow.
Looks absolutely badass, with a random phoenix like fire bird sweeping through out of nowhere at the end.
Test server went into maintenance before I could get too many damage numbers, but the first few was around ~1200 on Ru'aun Gardens Sand Sweepers at level 99, DMG 34 weapon, with around 113 DEX, 132 STR, 704 attack and 1 merit into WS.
Edited, Nov 30th 2011 10:31pm by Deswolf
Deswolf wrote:
Looks absolutely badass, with a random phoenix like fire bird sweeping through out of nowhere at the end.
Shijin are the sky gods. If you watch the animation, it's very likely Byakko (claws) -> Seiryu (tornado) -> Genbu (frontal kick) -> Suzaku (phoenix). Says it's a 5 hit WS though so I was looking for something Kirin-like in there, but simply don't see it. Japanese and Chinese shijin mythology diverge a bit, so maybe it's some difference between those I don't know about.
99 BLM / 99 BRD / 99 MNK / 99 WAR / 89 NPC
Wearing a dex build on taru, with 88+56 DEX (byakkos, usukane, enkidus, Mirke, etc.) and 5 merits using revent fists +2, I was averaging about 2300-2500 damage on the same sand sweepers in sky.
Prim wrote:
Deswolf wrote:
Looks absolutely badass, with a random phoenix like fire bird sweeping through out of nowhere at the end.
Shijin are the sky gods. If you watch the animation, it's very likely Byakko (claws) -> Seiryu (tornado) -> Genbu (frontal kick) -> Suzaku (phoenix). Says it's a 5 hit WS though so I was looking for something Kirin-like in there, but simply don't see it. Japanese and Chinese shijin mythology diverge a bit, so maybe it's some difference between those I don't know about.
In Chinese shijin mythology there's a fifth creature known as Huang-long, the "Yellow Dragon of the Center", based on the element of Earth. There is no counterpart creature in Japanese shijin mythology, and the myths involving the kirin were never associated with the shijin. In fact, Ouryu would be a closer representative for Huang-long than Kirin is.
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My thoughts and reviews on all sorts of sci-fi stuff...and things.
Vlorsutes, Lord of Stuff wrote:
In Chinese shijin mythology there's a fifth creature known as Huang-long, the "Yellow Dragon of the Center", based on the element of Earth. There is no counterpart creature in Japanese shijin mythology, and the myths involving the kirin were never associated with the shijin. In fact, Ouryu would be a closer representative for Huang-long than Kirin is.
More like they spliced the two myths together. Kirin is the center and does use earth.
"And I'm prepared to passionately argue this point until nothing makes sense anymore. If that doesn't work, then the hours upon hours of whining will." -Red Mage Statscowski
Saggo ofGaruda Lakshmi
Saggo of
Copying some summary info so far:
WSC is 20% per merit, up to 100% at 5/5. Alpha of 0.85 means that your effective gain is 17% per merit, up to 85% at 5/5.
fTP is currently estimated as 1.0625
Skillchain element: Fusion/???
Spreadsheet analysis:
Put this in the spreadsheet to look at some comparitive numbers (5/5 merits for Shijin) based on current fTP and WSC values.
Using Vere 90 as weapon (outside Abyssea):
Smite:
Tantra Tathlum
Aias Bonnet
Rancor Max
Brutal
Vulcan
Tantra +2
Heafoc
Rajas
Epona
Atheling
Black
Usukane
Tantra +2
Shijin:
Demonry
Aias Bonnet
Gorget
Brutal
Jupiter
Loki's Kaftan
Ample Gloves
Thundersoul
Thundersoul
Nifty
Warwolf
Byakko
Melee +2
Asuran:
Thew Bomblet
Aias Bonnet
Justiciar's
Brutal
Aesir
Tantra +2
Melee +2
Rajas
Spiral
Atheling
Anguinus
Usukane
Tantra +2
VS fodder mobs with capped pDif:
Shijin: 2253
Smite (-Impetus): 2191
Smite (+Impetus): 2573
Asuran: 1689
Bukhis (changed hands in both sets to Melee+2):
Shijin: 1549
Smite (-Impetus): 1723
Smite (+Impetus): 2126
Asuran: 1512
Faux-Qilin target (changed hands in both sets to Melee+2):
Shijin: 1002
Smite (-Impetus): 1235
Smite (+Impetus): 1262
Asuran: 965
On tougher mobs, Shijin is a bit ahead of Asuran; on weak mobs it's well ahead of Asuran. On tough mobs Smite has a comfortable lead over Shijin, while on weaker mobs they're about on par, if Impetus is down. If Impetus is up and acc is good, Smite takes a substantial lead.
Overall assessment:
If you have Smite, just keep using it.
If you don't have Smite, this is a mild upgrade from Asuran. On the most difficult mobs, Asuran will probably close the gap if you take advantage of the "Accuracy varies with TP" aspect, but on lower end stuff Shijin will be notably better.
The impact of Plague from Shijin is as yet unknown.
Edited, Dec 2nd 2011 3:18pm by Kinematics
WSC is 20% per merit, up to 100% at 5/5. Alpha of 0.85 means that your effective gain is 17% per merit, up to 85% at 5/5.
fTP is currently estimated as 1.0625
Skillchain element: Fusion/???
Spreadsheet analysis:
Put this in the spreadsheet to look at some comparitive numbers (5/5 merits for Shijin) based on current fTP and WSC values.
Using Vere 90 as weapon (outside Abyssea):
Smite:
Tantra Tathlum
Aias Bonnet
Rancor Max
Brutal
Vulcan
Tantra +2
Heafoc
Rajas
Epona
Atheling
Black
Usukane
Tantra +2
Shijin:
Demonry
Aias Bonnet
Gorget
Brutal
Jupiter
Loki's Kaftan
Ample Gloves
Thundersoul
Thundersoul
Nifty
Warwolf
Byakko
Melee +2
Asuran:
Thew Bomblet
Aias Bonnet
Justiciar's
Brutal
Aesir
Tantra +2
Melee +2
Rajas
Spiral
Atheling
Anguinus
Usukane
Tantra +2
VS fodder mobs with capped pDif:
Shijin: 2253
Smite (-Impetus): 2191
Smite (+Impetus): 2573
Asuran: 1689
Bukhis (changed hands in both sets to Melee+2):
Shijin: 1549
Smite (-Impetus): 1723
Smite (+Impetus): 2126
Asuran: 1512
Faux-Qilin target (changed hands in both sets to Melee+2):
Shijin: 1002
Smite (-Impetus): 1235
Smite (+Impetus): 1262
Asuran: 965
On tougher mobs, Shijin is a bit ahead of Asuran; on weak mobs it's well ahead of Asuran. On tough mobs Smite has a comfortable lead over Shijin, while on weaker mobs they're about on par, if Impetus is down. If Impetus is up and acc is good, Smite takes a substantial lead.
Overall assessment:
If you have Smite, just keep using it.
If you don't have Smite, this is a mild upgrade from Asuran. On the most difficult mobs, Asuran will probably close the gap if you take advantage of the "Accuracy varies with TP" aspect, but on lower end stuff Shijin will be notably better.
The impact of Plague from Shijin is as yet unknown.
Edited, Dec 2nd 2011 3:18pm by Kinematics
Thanks Kinematics for always doing the groundwork on stuff like this :) I was really getting worried that Shijin was going to poop all over people who worked towards smite.
Puppetmaster - Lyrminas
PUP MNK - Mains
PUP MNK - Mains
I would prefer for it to do that, to be honest. I'd rather get upgrades than sidegrades and/or downgrades.
Additional info on the plague effect:
Tends to last between 5 and 8 ticks at -5 TP per tick, for a total reduction of 25 to 40 TP.
Unknown whether NMs are immune to it. If they are, as they are to several other plague effects, its usefulness drops considerably.
If using Footwork+Shijin, it should be possible to keep a mob from ever being able to use a TP move unless it has regain. With Footwork and a 7-hit build, you can expect to give the mob 25-33 TP per weaponskill (depending on Penance) with capped Subtle Blow. You getting hit and doing counters will still give it some TP, though.
If that's the case, then instead of Footwork reducing mob TP moves by half while taking twice as long to kill (thus taking the same number of total moves), it will still take twice as long to kill, but reduce mob TP moves by a factor of 30 to 100, reducing the risk of taking heavy damage to almost nil.
Outside of Footwork, it should reduce mob TP usage by a factor of 1.5 to 3 without Penance, or 2 to 5 with Penance.
All that assumes the mnk is the only player hitting the mob, of course.
Tends to last between 5 and 8 ticks at -5 TP per tick, for a total reduction of 25 to 40 TP.
Unknown whether NMs are immune to it. If they are, as they are to several other plague effects, its usefulness drops considerably.
If using Footwork+Shijin, it should be possible to keep a mob from ever being able to use a TP move unless it has regain. With Footwork and a 7-hit build, you can expect to give the mob 25-33 TP per weaponskill (depending on Penance) with capped Subtle Blow. You getting hit and doing counters will still give it some TP, though.
If that's the case, then instead of Footwork reducing mob TP moves by half while taking twice as long to kill (thus taking the same number of total moves), it will still take twice as long to kill, but reduce mob TP moves by a factor of 30 to 100, reducing the risk of taking heavy damage to almost nil.
Outside of Footwork, it should reduce mob TP usage by a factor of 1.5 to 3 without Penance, or 2 to 5 with Penance.
All that assumes the mnk is the only player hitting the mob, of course.
Seems that testing of other WS's is showing that ftp mod applies to all hits on these WS's. Maybe we can have some testing on that for this WS, especially using gorgets and such.
That seems to be applying to only some of the weaponskills. Will need to be tested to determine if it applies to SS. If it does, that's a potential ~15% increase in total weaponskill damage that's possible.
Current fTP seems pretty solid at 1.0625.
New info out today from reps on official forums says Shijin Spiral gets an attack boost. This needs to be tested. I can provide test methodology if anyone here wants to try on the test server.
New info out today from reps on official forums says Shijin Spiral gets an attack boost. This needs to be tested. I can provide test methodology if anyone here wants to try on the test server.
There was testing on another forum I saw, and it seemed to indicate that it was a 10% attack boost.
Hand-to-Hand Weapon Skill “Shijin Spiral”
There have been requests saying that this is weaker than Stringing Pummel and Victory Smite, so please make it stronger than both of those, but we cannot do this for the same reasons listed for our adjustments to Ruinator and Realm Razer.
We have also received some comments saying that the damage of Shijin Spiral is no different than Asuran Fists, or perhaps lower.
We took a look at the conditions of the players who performed weapon skill tests, but there are differences in attack power when executing each weapon skill, and because of this the result was that Asuran Fists and Victory Smite was higher.
Shijin Spiral is stronger than Asuran Fists and when boosting your stats using the appropriate equipment and food, the differences between Asuran Fists and Shijin Spiral will become more apparent, and the gap between Victory Smite and Shijin Spiral will also become smaller.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/17245-dev1049-New-weapon-skills?p=242770&viewfull=1#post242770
There have been requests saying that this is weaker than Stringing Pummel and Victory Smite, so please make it stronger than both of those, but we cannot do this for the same reasons listed for our adjustments to Ruinator and Realm Razer.
We have also received some comments saying that the damage of Shijin Spiral is no different than Asuran Fists, or perhaps lower.
We took a look at the conditions of the players who performed weapon skill tests, but there are differences in attack power when executing each weapon skill, and because of this the result was that Asuran Fists and Victory Smite was higher.
Shijin Spiral is stronger than Asuran Fists and when boosting your stats using the appropriate equipment and food, the differences between Asuran Fists and Shijin Spiral will become more apparent, and the gap between Victory Smite and Shijin Spiral will also become smaller.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/17245-dev1049-New-weapon-skills?p=242770&viewfull=1#post242770
.
Yeah, there's really nothing wrong with the weaponskill itself. It's decently balanced between Asuran Fists (~3/5 merits) and Victory Smite (5/5 merits). Just cross your fingers that it doesn't get caught up in the nerf frenzy that's going on.
45 posts
Is building a set of DEX acc knucks gonna be better than a STR att knucks now?
SS > Kings Justice = Light
Nice for zerg with mighty strikes up. just sayin.....
Nice for zerg with mighty strikes up. just sayin.....
[99WAR,99BLM,99DRK,99BST,99PLD,99MNK,99SMN75RDM49THF45NIN/WHM/DNC
/SAM,,~] Galka
BASTOK:10 SKY: O SEA: O DYNAMIS: O
SIREN srvr
YARP !!!
/SAM,,~] Galka
BASTOK:10 SKY: O SEA: O DYNAMIS: O
SIREN srvr
YARP !!!
a 2 man zerg? lol other than that gl getting a sc to go off in the flurry of all those ws'
Quote:
a 2 man zerg?
[99WAR,99BLM,99DRK,99BST,99PLD,99MNK,99SMN75RDM49THF45NIN/WHM/DNC
/SAM,,~] Galka
BASTOK:10 SKY: O SEA: O DYNAMIS: O
SIREN srvr
YARP !!!
/SAM,,~] Galka
BASTOK:10 SKY: O SEA: O DYNAMIS: O
SIREN srvr
YARP !!!
Sindakit wrote:
Is building a set of DEX acc knucks gonna be better than a STR att knucks now?
No, unless you're fighting something extremely evasive where the Acc are the reason they might be useful. Adding DEX from the weapon slot as a WS mod will not make up for the hit to fSTR from giving up the STR on fire path h2h.
Anza: Titan 2004-2011 / Capuchin: Phoenix 2011-???
Does anyone have any numbers of empy Smite vs. fire magian SS hand2hands? That would be a better comparison I believe. Cause I don't really think a person with the empyrean hands are gonna use SS. So a person with fire hands would probably want a more realistic comparison before dumping 1mil xp into a weaponskill right?
Yeah I don't mind doing quad damage to your back or stabbing you so fast it interrupts your casting. :)
90 Vere vs Fire Taipan +3
Numbers without/with Impetus
With gear you might have lying around:
Taipan Shijin: 1665/1735
Vere Smite: 1714/2139
Taipan Smite (for comparison of the weapons themselves): 1699/2115
With more optimized/maximized gear sets (current known gear; excluding Denali+5 stuff):
Taipan Shijin: 1800/1878
Vere Smite: 1818/2229
Numbers without/with Impetus
With gear you might have lying around:
Taipan Shijin: 1665/1735
Vere Smite: 1714/2139
Taipan Smite (for comparison of the weapons themselves): 1699/2115
With more optimized/maximized gear sets (current known gear; excluding Denali+5 stuff):
Taipan Shijin: 1800/1878
Vere Smite: 1818/2229
Anyone checked out the OA2-4 or OA2 weapons with this new ws? Seems that due to higher damage, much higher mod and higher tp gain could very well catch up or surpass some of these other weapons.
With more optimized/maximized gear sets (current known gear; excluding Denali+5 stuff):
Taipan Shijin: 1800/1878
Vere Smite: 1818/2229
[/quote]
so, low damage almost the same, but smite pulls out ahead on maximium possible damage.
hmm,
Is that math pre or post nerf math?
Should be post-nerf numbers.
Sorry to necro, but did Shijin revive Spharai to any extent?
There are two kinds of people in FFXI, those doing the laughing and those who don't know what's funny.
Necro Warning: This post occurred more than thirty days after the prior, and may be a necropost.
Yes it did. If you have Spharai but don't have Verethragna, Shijin Spiral is the best weaponskill you can have.
Lady Jinte wrote:
Vlorsutes' Negotiation Skill rises 0.2 points
Vlorsutes' Observant Parent Skill rises 0.3 points
Vlorsutes' Argument Diffusing Skill rises 0.1 points
My thoughts and reviews on all sorts of sci-fi stuff...and things.
Im working on my shijin build now. Some questions.
1. Is warwolf a better choice than light belt?
2. Since i only have nq melee gaiters(4dex) im assuming the 8str from tantra+2 would be better. Agree?
3. Does anyone still check this thread?
1. Is warwolf a better choice than light belt?
2. Since i only have nq melee gaiters(4dex) im assuming the 8str from tantra+2 would be better. Agree?
3. Does anyone still check this thread?
Kinematics wrote:
Copying some summary info so far:
WSC is 20% per merit, up to 100% at 5/5. Alpha of 0.85 means that your effective gain is 17% per merit, up to 85% at 5/5.
fTP is currently estimated as 1.0625
Skillchain element: Fusion/???
Spreadsheet analysis:
Put this in the spreadsheet to look at some comparitive numbers (5/5 merits for Shijin) based on current fTP and WSC values.
Using Vere 90 as weapon (outside Abyssea):
Smite:
Tantra Tathlum
Aias Bonnet
Rancor Max
Brutal
Vulcan
Tantra +2
Heafoc
Rajas
Epona
Atheling
Black
Usukane
Tantra +2
Shijin:
Demonry
Aias Bonnet
Gorget
Brutal
Jupiter
Loki's Kaftan
Ample Gloves
Thundersoul
Thundersoul
Nifty
Warwolf
Byakko
Melee +2
Asuran:
Thew Bomblet
Aias Bonnet
Justiciar's
Brutal
Aesir
Tantra +2
Melee +2
Rajas
Spiral
Atheling
Anguinus
Usukane
Tantra +2
VS fodder mobs with capped pDif:
Shijin: 2253
Smite (-Impetus): 2191
Smite (+Impetus): 2573
Asuran: 1689
Bukhis (changed hands in both sets to Melee+2):
Shijin: 1549
Smite (-Impetus): 1723
Smite (+Impetus): 2126
Asuran: 1512
Faux-Qilin target (changed hands in both sets to Melee+2):
Shijin: 1002
Smite (-Impetus): 1235
Smite (+Impetus): 1262
Asuran: 965
On tougher mobs, Shijin is a bit ahead of Asuran; on weak mobs it's well ahead of Asuran. On tough mobs Smite has a comfortable lead over Shijin, while on weaker mobs they're about on par, if Impetus is down. If Impetus is up and acc is good, Smite takes a substantial lead.
Overall assessment:
If you have Smite, just keep using it.
If you don't have Smite, this is a mild upgrade from Asuran. On the most difficult mobs, Asuran will probably close the gap if you take advantage of the "Accuracy varies with TP" aspect, but on lower end stuff Shijin will be notably better.
The impact of Plague from Shijin is as yet unknown.
Edited, Dec 2nd 2011 3:18pm by Kinematics
WSC is 20% per merit, up to 100% at 5/5. Alpha of 0.85 means that your effective gain is 17% per merit, up to 85% at 5/5.
fTP is currently estimated as 1.0625
Skillchain element: Fusion/???
Spreadsheet analysis:
Put this in the spreadsheet to look at some comparitive numbers (5/5 merits for Shijin) based on current fTP and WSC values.
Using Vere 90 as weapon (outside Abyssea):
Smite:
Tantra Tathlum
Aias Bonnet
Rancor Max
Brutal
Vulcan
Tantra +2
Heafoc
Rajas
Epona
Atheling
Black
Usukane
Tantra +2
Shijin:
Demonry
Aias Bonnet
Gorget
Brutal
Jupiter
Loki's Kaftan
Ample Gloves
Thundersoul
Thundersoul
Nifty
Warwolf
Byakko
Melee +2
Asuran:
Thew Bomblet
Aias Bonnet
Justiciar's
Brutal
Aesir
Tantra +2
Melee +2
Rajas
Spiral
Atheling
Anguinus
Usukane
Tantra +2
VS fodder mobs with capped pDif:
Shijin: 2253
Smite (-Impetus): 2191
Smite (+Impetus): 2573
Asuran: 1689
Bukhis (changed hands in both sets to Melee+2):
Shijin: 1549
Smite (-Impetus): 1723
Smite (+Impetus): 2126
Asuran: 1512
Faux-Qilin target (changed hands in both sets to Melee+2):
Shijin: 1002
Smite (-Impetus): 1235
Smite (+Impetus): 1262
Asuran: 965
On tougher mobs, Shijin is a bit ahead of Asuran; on weak mobs it's well ahead of Asuran. On tough mobs Smite has a comfortable lead over Shijin, while on weaker mobs they're about on par, if Impetus is down. If Impetus is up and acc is good, Smite takes a substantial lead.
Overall assessment:
If you have Smite, just keep using it.
If you don't have Smite, this is a mild upgrade from Asuran. On the most difficult mobs, Asuran will probably close the gap if you take advantage of the "Accuracy varies with TP" aspect, but on lower end stuff Shijin will be notably better.
The impact of Plague from Shijin is as yet unknown.
Edited, Dec 2nd 2011 3:18pm by Kinematics
Necro Warning: This post occurred more than thirty days after the prior, and may be a necropost.
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