A few things to note about Perfect Counter, since it doesn't seem to be mentioned and might be useful to people.
- It stacks with Counterstance. Also, Counterstance procs over Perfect Counter, so you can counter via CS and not lose Perfect Counter. This is nice since it actually improves your counter rate, I was worried it would just be the first hit you take regardless.
- It does not counter TP moves. No surprise.
- It does not get wiped by AoE moves.
- Shadows take priority, as normal.
Nothing game breaking but a handy addition. I could see it possibly making MNK/WAR a bit less of an issue in exp, depending on who you're partying with - if you're the top DD and tanking 90% of the time it won't help, but if you're with some equal DDs then it could definitely make it more viable, or at least make your mages complain.
I'm really hoping we see a Seigan-esque stance to make this 30 second recast and/or have multiple procs. We can dream.
Edited, Jun 24th 2010 2:22am by Solarus2
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Notes on Perfect CounterFollow
As I've noted on this BG thread:
http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3899577#post3899577
I'm almost certain that counterstance does *not* proc before p.counter, rather p.counter can block 1-3 attacks.
I've been leveling on T golems in ro'maeve and fighting campaign NMs and in every case my evasion/counter rate is floored, yet as soon as I hit p.counter, I'll get 1-3 counters in before it wears off.
I'll add more examples as I get them, but from what I see, this is basically the same as third eye + seigan except with just counter attacks and a hard limit at 3 counters.
http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3899577#post3899577
I'm almost certain that counterstance does *not* proc before p.counter, rather p.counter can block 1-3 attacks.
I've been leveling on T golems in ro'maeve and fighting campaign NMs and in every case my evasion/counter rate is floored, yet as soon as I hit p.counter, I'll get 1-3 counters in before it wears off.
I'll add more examples as I get them, but from what I see, this is basically the same as third eye + seigan except with just counter attacks and a hard limit at 3 counters.
Fishing (50), Woodworking (60, LJ), Smithing (60+1, CW/SH/MP/ME)
Goldsmithing (100+6, GP/GE/CW/SH/CM), Clothcraft (60), Leathercraft (60+1)
Bonecraft (60+1), Alchemy (60), Cooking (60+1), Synergy (70)
Goin' insane 1 synth at a time.
Goldsmithing (100+6, GP/GE/CW/SH/CM), Clothcraft (60), Leathercraft (60+1)
Bonecraft (60+1), Alchemy (60), Cooking (60+1), Synergy (70)
Goin' insane 1 synth at a time.
i can corroborate this. From what i've seen, PC acts like seigan TE, with a random number of procs per use. gonna test more.
also, guard checks before PC. so you can get hit while under PC, but only guarded hits get through.
edit: that may be incorrect. need to test more but i know i am getting hit somehow (though rarely) while PC is up
Edited, Jun 24th 2010 4:34am by Llester
also, guard checks before PC. so you can get hit while under PC, but only guarded hits get through.
edit: that may be incorrect. need to test more but i know i am getting hit somehow (though rarely) while PC is up
Edited, Jun 24th 2010 4:34am by Llester
I don't think it's guard as I got hit for non-guard numbers while testing on marids.
I suspect that the missed counters are merely failed accuracy checks off a 100% or 95% counter rate.
95% accuracy + 95% counter rate would have about a 10% fail rate on incoming hits, but it doesn't really feel that high. probably 100% counter rate and 95% accuracy or some such for a 5% failure rate.
Haven't really tested enough to really tell.
I suspect that the missed counters are merely failed accuracy checks off a 100% or 95% counter rate.
95% accuracy + 95% counter rate would have about a 10% fail rate on incoming hits, but it doesn't really feel that high. probably 100% counter rate and 95% accuracy or some such for a 5% failure rate.
Haven't really tested enough to really tell.
Fishing (50), Woodworking (60, LJ), Smithing (60+1, CW/SH/MP/ME)
Goldsmithing (100+6, GP/GE/CW/SH/CM), Clothcraft (60), Leathercraft (60+1)
Bonecraft (60+1), Alchemy (60), Cooking (60+1), Synergy (70)
Goin' insane 1 synth at a time.
Goldsmithing (100+6, GP/GE/CW/SH/CM), Clothcraft (60), Leathercraft (60+1)
Bonecraft (60+1), Alchemy (60), Cooking (60+1), Synergy (70)
Goin' insane 1 synth at a time.
8 posts
Yeah, that does sound right. I thought maybe I was just getting a lucky amount of counter procs with counterstance down, but multiple counters seems more likely.
Having used Pefect Counter a fair bit on SSR salvage last night, I have to say I absolutely love it.
I agree on the hypothesis that it's a max of 3 counters in a row, with the possibility of losing the buff similar to Third Eye. I would often get 2-3 counters before the buff dropped. While it's -possible- that those were normal counters that prevented Perfect Counter from proccing, it seems far too coincidental with it happening that frequently.
General feel is that you can commonly expect to get 2 counters before it wears off, and because of that its tactical use is expanded beyond merely getting Ichi back up.
First is that double attacks are less of a worry, since you can usually counter both; very useful on mobs that double attack a lot.
Second is that being able to counter two full rounds gives you ~8-10 seconds of breathing room (depending on Slow/Elegy), which takes a huge chunk out of Ni recast. Therefore, rather than using PC to recast Ichi, I'd often instead use PC to give me time for Ni to be ready and cast that instead.
I agree on the hypothesis that it's a max of 3 counters in a row, with the possibility of losing the buff similar to Third Eye. I would often get 2-3 counters before the buff dropped. While it's -possible- that those were normal counters that prevented Perfect Counter from proccing, it seems far too coincidental with it happening that frequently.
General feel is that you can commonly expect to get 2 counters before it wears off, and because of that its tactical use is expanded beyond merely getting Ichi back up.
First is that double attacks are less of a worry, since you can usually counter both; very useful on mobs that double attack a lot.
Second is that being able to counter two full rounds gives you ~8-10 seconds of breathing room (depending on Slow/Elegy), which takes a huge chunk out of Ni recast. Therefore, rather than using PC to recast Ichi, I'd often instead use PC to give me time for Ni to be ready and cast that instead.
Think I found out something else about Perfect Counter.
Was doing a Magian trial today, trying to proc the additional effect of the Def Down Cat's Claws, and fighting doomed. Ended up in the Mire fighting the 72-74 doomed, and thus got hit plenty (~50% evasion rate; was mnk/dnc for healing). As such I was making liberal use of Perfect Counter.
Along the way I noticed that the crit rate of my counters was rather high, something like 3/4 (couldn't count at the time, just a guess). A bit of pondering and observation and I realized that *every* counter performed while under the effect of Perfect Counter was a crit. I've kept watch on this for a while, and so far haven't seen an exception.
So at this point it seems part of the 'perfect' in Perfect Counter is a guaranteed crit on the counter.
Was doing a Magian trial today, trying to proc the additional effect of the Def Down Cat's Claws, and fighting doomed. Ended up in the Mire fighting the 72-74 doomed, and thus got hit plenty (~50% evasion rate; was mnk/dnc for healing). As such I was making liberal use of Perfect Counter.
Along the way I noticed that the crit rate of my counters was rather high, something like 3/4 (couldn't count at the time, just a guess). A bit of pondering and observation and I realized that *every* counter performed while under the effect of Perfect Counter was a crit. I've kept watch on this for a while, and so far haven't seen an exception.
So at this point it seems part of the 'perfect' in Perfect Counter is a guaranteed crit on the counter.
Scholar
30 posts
I noticed that as well so I parser it. Ignore the ws dmg as I was lazy to seperate them; its used for the Tornado kick thread. This pic is my normal counter with no perfect counter used on magician trial weapon of 0 dmg [IMG]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Truazn78/ff/normalcounter.jpg[/IMG]
This one is perfect counter only with the same weapon. Note: the counter dmg should be higher as my natural counter proc a few times thus lowering the average counter dmg. [IMG]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Truazn78/ff/perfectcounterfootwork.jpg[/IMG]
I found something weird about perfect counter. It does seem to counter 1-3 most of the time but this is weird as perfect counter wore off on it's own in 9 seconds [IMG]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Truazn78/ff/pcounter.jpg[/IMG] Could perfect counter be on a 95% cap or was it a fluke? For the 1hr that I paid attention to perfect counter, this was the only time I noticed it wore off early without countering anything. *edit* I just read the lvl 80 discussion and seems I failed to pass the acc test on that ep Gnoal lol.
Edited, Jun 26th 2010 11:05am by Bytemeee
This one is perfect counter only with the same weapon. Note: the counter dmg should be higher as my natural counter proc a few times thus lowering the average counter dmg. [IMG]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Truazn78/ff/perfectcounterfootwork.jpg[/IMG]
I found something weird about perfect counter. It does seem to counter 1-3 most of the time but this is weird as perfect counter wore off on it's own in 9 seconds [IMG]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Truazn78/ff/pcounter.jpg[/IMG] Could perfect counter be on a 95% cap or was it a fluke? For the 1hr that I paid attention to perfect counter, this was the only time I noticed it wore off early without countering anything. *edit* I just read the lvl 80 discussion and seems I failed to pass the acc test on that ep Gnoal lol.
Edited, Jun 26th 2010 11:05am by Bytemeee
lvl 74 RNG = http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?11932
lvl 67 RDM = http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?75384
Zilart = mission 14 AA
CoP = chapter 5
lvl 67 RDM = http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?75384
Zilart = mission 14 AA
CoP = chapter 5
As for counter wearing without countering anything, from what I've seen you have about a 95% chance to counter an incoming attack which may or may not be affected by your accuracy (I haven't tested this with anything I didn't have capped accuracy on). In the event that you fail your accuracy check and are hit, it still counts against your 1-3 p.counters. I've seen:
p.counter -> hit -> hit -> counter -> p.counter wears
p.counter -> hit -> p.counter wears
for example.
In my 20+ hours of using p.counter to solo skillups (hi2u guard) since the patch I have never seen:
p.counter wearing off without countering/taking a hit/timing out (remember that it will wear off before the counter or hit that actually caused it to wear off)
p.counter last more than 3 counters or any combination of 3 counters/taken hits, regardless of counterstance.
I HAVE seen:
p.counter counter 1, 2, and 3 hits
p.counter combinations of hits/counters such as hit, hit/counter, hit/hit/counter that never added up to more than 3 hits/counters.
p.counter -> hit -> hit -> counter -> p.counter wears
p.counter -> hit -> p.counter wears
for example.
In my 20+ hours of using p.counter to solo skillups (hi2u guard) since the patch I have never seen:
p.counter wearing off without countering/taking a hit/timing out (remember that it will wear off before the counter or hit that actually caused it to wear off)
p.counter last more than 3 counters or any combination of 3 counters/taken hits, regardless of counterstance.
I HAVE seen:
p.counter counter 1, 2, and 3 hits
p.counter combinations of hits/counters such as hit, hit/counter, hit/hit/counter that never added up to more than 3 hits/counters.
Fishing (50), Woodworking (60, LJ), Smithing (60+1, CW/SH/MP/ME)
Goldsmithing (100+6, GP/GE/CW/SH/CM), Clothcraft (60), Leathercraft (60+1)
Bonecraft (60+1), Alchemy (60), Cooking (60+1), Synergy (70)
Goin' insane 1 synth at a time.
Goldsmithing (100+6, GP/GE/CW/SH/CM), Clothcraft (60), Leathercraft (60+1)
Bonecraft (60+1), Alchemy (60), Cooking (60+1), Synergy (70)
Goin' insane 1 synth at a time.
Kinematics wrote:
Think I found out something else about Perfect Counter.
Was doing a Magian trial today, trying to proc the additional effect of the Def Down Cat's Claws, and fighting doomed. Ended up in the Mire fighting the 72-74 doomed, and thus got hit plenty (~50% evasion rate; was mnk/dnc for healing). As such I was making liberal use of Perfect Counter.
Along the way I noticed that the crit rate of my counters was rather high, something like 3/4 (couldn't count at the time, just a guess). A bit of pondering and observation and I realized that *every* counter performed while under the effect of Perfect Counter was a crit. I've kept watch on this for a while, and so far haven't seen an exception.
So at this point it seems part of the 'perfect' in Perfect Counter is a guaranteed crit on the counter.
Was doing a Magian trial today, trying to proc the additional effect of the Def Down Cat's Claws, and fighting doomed. Ended up in the Mire fighting the 72-74 doomed, and thus got hit plenty (~50% evasion rate; was mnk/dnc for healing). As such I was making liberal use of Perfect Counter.
Along the way I noticed that the crit rate of my counters was rather high, something like 3/4 (couldn't count at the time, just a guess). A bit of pondering and observation and I realized that *every* counter performed while under the effect of Perfect Counter was a crit. I've kept watch on this for a while, and so far haven't seen an exception.
So at this point it seems part of the 'perfect' in Perfect Counter is a guaranteed crit on the counter.
Are you sure? Counters already have a very high crit rate.
There's a difference between "very high" and "100%". I had dozens of counters using Perfect Counter, and every single one of them (once I started watching) was a crit. Note that in the case of getting 2-3 counters before PC wore off, every single one was still a crit, lending more evidence towards PC lasting for multiple counters, rather than those being 'regular' counters that supplanted PC.
I'm pretty much certain of the crit rate now, and at this point would place the onus on those trying to disprove it to show evidence of a non-crit counter under PC.
Also, a minor side item: If you get hit when you -can't- counter (ie: back is turned on mob), it doesn't count in terms of number of attacks before PC wears off. It may also apply if you're stunned/terrorized/petrified/etc.
I'm pretty much certain of the crit rate now, and at this point would place the onus on those trying to disprove it to show evidence of a non-crit counter under PC.
Also, a minor side item: If you get hit when you -can't- counter (ie: back is turned on mob), it doesn't count in terms of number of attacks before PC wears off. It may also apply if you're stunned/terrorized/petrified/etc.
8 posts
Agreed on the critical. Or at least, higher damage, I assume they're criticals. Not that counters specify a critical, but they're 1.5-2x normal hit damage every time that I've paid attention to it so far.
I just hope it's not an unintended bug, and that it stays that way.
PC does make Counterstance a bit redundant in most situations though. Usually you'll either have enough other DDs there that PC will be enough counters when you have hate, or you'll have hate significantly often that you'll be using shadows, and again PC will be sufficient between those. In Salvage at least I've found that Counterstance hasn't been much use to me beyond increasing the damage taken from AoEs.
Now, if only they'd change Counterstance to giving PC a 30 second duration, coupled with a stance for damage... We can dream?
Edited, Jun 28th 2010 10:25pm by Solarus2
I just hope it's not an unintended bug, and that it stays that way.
PC does make Counterstance a bit redundant in most situations though. Usually you'll either have enough other DDs there that PC will be enough counters when you have hate, or you'll have hate significantly often that you'll be using shadows, and again PC will be sufficient between those. In Salvage at least I've found that Counterstance hasn't been much use to me beyond increasing the damage taken from AoEs.
Now, if only they'd change Counterstance to giving PC a 30 second duration, coupled with a stance for damage... We can dream?
Edited, Jun 28th 2010 10:25pm by Solarus2
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