Mnk updateFollow

Wow, that's almost as big of a slap in the face as Pups getting A level H2H skill.

There's no way it could be good. There's not enough gear swaps you could possibly make to somehow make it effective. Funny how the playerbase is all caught up on store TP and WS frequency - so they give us a JA that inhibits it. Cute.

No.

if only you could, I use to have bards and rdms join the party, say I'm a moron and leave, and many occasions. Seen that on drg back in the day.

just because you can make parties doesnt mean people will join, there are alot of aholes out there.

but either way, just suck it up and let another job have its day.

As a PUP and MNK, this is a very interesting development for me. I identify as a PUP "main", so I'm understandably thrilled that PUP is becoming a top tier DD. However, coming at the expense of MNK is unfortunate. I know MNK has some DD advantages to PUP natively - higher Martial Arts traits, Focus, Kick Attacks, some better DD gear (Destroyers, Byakko's Haidate, etc). But it seems like those advantages don't compete with an A skill H2H user WITH a puppet.

One way MNK could carve out more of a niche... tanking ability! I was thinking of what MNK has that PUP can't compare with, and I thought of MNK's role in Salvage as an awesome tank.

What about adding new JAs/gear to enhance tanking? Counterstance buffs? Pumping up Subtle Blow (perhaps AoE effect on your party like WHM's Auspice, as opposed to Penance focusing on the enemy's TP gain). Increasing base DEF to go with that super high MNK HP?

Those MNK possible updates sound pretty lackluster from a DD perspective, but thinking about it more, maybe they could be a useful tool for moving MNK to a bit of a different role?

This is no hyperbole:

I literally logged into FFXI following the update notes and started leveling PUP.

Subtle blow isn't the answer to this. It's a great JA, but leave the AoE subtle blow to the mages, it has no place on mnk. If anything give that PoS JA to nin, as they have more subtle blow traits than mnk to begin with.

Point is there are so many ways to cap subtle blow, it's just not the answer. If you want to give mnk something, give it something useful. Even if it's not for damage, subtle blow just isn't the right direction to go with it.

Hurray Focus2? 1.5 with the downsides? And having Pups bumped up to almost as skilled as us in H2h.

I really hope they are just testing the waters with some of these things. Monk is great and all but I really want to see more then "Congratulations! you get another ACC+ Ability! Oh, and subtle blow because we know how much you guys love it."

Someone has to be at the bottom and it should be PUP.

My parents were proud 'till I told them I started leveling PUP. Now they're ashamed.

Not to mention we went years being thought of as the sh*t job. In any case, yeah giving them A doesn't really bother me either. I love my job and that's not gonna change.

That idea for a new ability is kinda weak though. But when you think about it, we aren't allowed to WS and they reduce TP gain? If we can't WS anyway, why even touch the TP gain?

peace,
CR

Well, with 24 new levels incoming, I think SE did that because the gap between skill levels is going to widen substantially. Still, Monk does not have much to offer over Pup anymore so you've got to see if SE gives you anything useful (Note: A JA that restricts WS is not useful, SE!) since Pup's automaton is ALSO getting an update. I guess I have to eat my words about Pup being lol now...




It's bitter ._.

W/ pizza near or at acc cap on anything worth having a mnk melee on in the game. Your acc won't be low enough to the point where the x-acc could offset a decrease in ws frequency. And it's closer to 65/35 tbh

I was under the impression that mnks got a HUGE boost from the update notes. I don't understand mnk very well, but aren't the extra skill hth levels from 75-99 going to raise your weapon damage by over 25%?

I doubt we are going to see a hagun with 110 damage because it will make relic trash. Unless they do something to scale down the bonus given to mnks weapon damage at 99 they are going to be massively powerful yes?

I'm officially calling troll on this guy.

NEXT!

Pup's new h2h skill total is now 302, monk 299 @ 75.
If I understand correctly we won't see lvl 99 until the last update, in November.
After November when other jobs can sub monk and use counterstance and Chi blast if they wanted to(don't know why they would but they could). SE will have effectively taken anything that made monk unique and given it to other jobs. And monk will still be stuck using /nin.

You do have a point there. Anyone know what the H2H increase will be as we level up. SE might even give more Martial arts traits. aside from skill I know H2H has it's own damage class that increases with level. How much will this bonus increase as we increase in level?

If the base damage increases and we gain more martial arts traits the damage potential per hit could be significantly greater then the bonuses souly from H2H skill.

I'm not into the mechanics here so if I'm wrong about this just be nice and post some info explaining thing. I agree with the last poster but in a different approach. If they nerf the masters what good will they be when other jobs excel beyond them.


Edited, Mar 1st 2010 3:45pm by Saricks

I'm sorry, MNKs. Looks like PUP is MNK 2.0, just like SCH was BLM 2.0.

I don't know what to say, but I hope they give you a better update than what they mentioned in the Twitter notes. :/

That said, I'm happy for my PUP friends.

More like lolmerit party.

Edited, Mar 1st 2010 2:59pm by Terrous

Edited, Mar 1st 2010 3:00pm by Terrous

You have a good grasp on the situation. You can stay.

What if the subtle blow increase meant that you give 0 TP to the monster per hit. Would that make it worth while? I don't know if feeding NM's TP is still an issue people worry about.

you know subtle blow does have a hard cap, do you not? They may give something to mnk that would make them hit cap w/o assistance of auspice and cor buffs, but they're not going over the hard cap, sorry. not even a plausible idea.

Hmm... Interesting thought. Using the notes as a basis to see where I could push the ability while still remaining realistic. Taking an optimistic stance here since Composure ended up being much nicer than originally thought.

~~ Speculation ~~

Player gains 1 TP per hit, always.

Mob gains ((1 + 3) - Subtle Blow %) TP

If we get +20 SB for the effect, then native trait + rajas + black belt + JA would be 50 SB, max.

Mob thus gains 2 TP per hit, or 1.5 with Penance up.

Not counting mob hitting player, would thus be 50 to 67 hits per TP move (25-33 each with 2 mnks using this).

If running at 1.0 cRatio, 4 fStr and 16% crit rate w/Destroyers (moderately tough mob), that's 3300-4400 damage done per 100 TP given to the mob. Not black mage levels, but certain impressive for a melee DD. By comparison, for roughly the same config:

Normal mnk: 1800-2400 dmg per 100 TP given
Footwork mnk: 2300-3100 dmg per 100 TP given
Sam: ~1700 dmg per 100 TP given (a bit more if they're subbing something with Subtle Blow)

Time it would take 2 mnks to hit that often with 59% haste (standard gear with black belt and usu feet, spell, double march), and assuming capped accuracy with the JA buff: 28-37 seconds. If 2 mnks, figure alternating Penances, so about 75 seconds for 2 TP moves from the mob, worst case. If the mob holds to 300 TP, that's almost 2 minutes per TP move. Since mobs are more likely to use TP moves after a big damage spike, and no weaponskills mean no big damage spikes, it's more likely to be at the high end of things.

Sounds ideal for low-man fights where you absolutely don't want to deal with mob TP moves, but don't have blms to throw at it (such as all the new NMs that are immune to grav/bind/sleep). A solo mnk will rarely see a TP move more than once per two minutes until the mob is below 25%, and even then won't see more than one per minute. Not a fast kill, to be sure, but certainly a safe one. Wouldn't mind using this on those bloody Zhayolm frogs >.>

Frankly, with this there's really no reason to restrict weaponskills. It'll just take you the equivalent of getting ~500 TP before you can use one.


Such a setup would pretty much hit the limit of what could be done to limit mob TP moves from the melee side. The only thing better would be 0 TP damage - which we have in counters - but we're unlikely to get that for general use. After that, raw damage has to improve.

However we're pretty limited on improving raw melee damage beyond what we currently use/recommend, even if we ignore accuracy entirely. About the only thing to change out would be acc ring >> flame ring, and str or att on neck (faith torque/CC/spike necklace/tiger stole). Kirin's Osode would probly be best body piece if acc is ignored, but that's about it.

A such, it would imply that you're pretty much stuck at fights that are ~50% longer than base (assuming nothing but 1 or 2 mnks for damage).

That would give us 3 fight modes: slower, extremely safe fights (new JA), moderately fast, fairly safe fights (Footwork), and very fast, somewhat risky fights (default). [Assuming 'safe' is measured in TP moves rather than, say, -ga spells.]

Well, I know that on Ultima, for example, tier 4 nukes hit for about 400, AM2 can hit for about 500. At 10 TP per nuke, that's 4000-5000 damage per 100 TP given to the mob, and roughly in the range of the above mnk with Penance up (though I don't have a parse of one of our older Ultima runs where we let the melee engage, so I'm not sure about its physical damage resistance level, which could reduce the effectiveness of the mnk in this scenario).

Of course Ultima has fairly heavy damage reduction against magic damage, and the above is only for max damage; accounting for resists, the average drops perhaps 10% on the tier 4s (AM2s tend to have fewer problems with resists due to m.acc from merits).

So on magic resistant mobs, yes, this could put a mnk roughly on par with a blm in terms of damage per TP given. Blms pull ahead when they can get closer to full damage on their nukes, or if the mob is resistant to physical damage.