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How bad is WAR sub needed?Follow

#1 Feb 20 2006 at 3:26 PM Rating: Decent
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I was just wondering... I know warrior sub is a must for mnk, but currently mine is 14 (and rising) and I was just wondering, when is a war sub really needed? When should I use THF sub?

Thanks!

Edited, Mon Feb 20 15:29:50 2006 by Ninjaflare
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#2 Feb 20 2006 at 5:28 PM Rating: Good
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War sub is greatly needed, only sub thf if you are asked to and its actually for a good reason. You will use /war for almost all your XP until endgame when other subs come into play.
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#3 Feb 20 2006 at 5:56 PM Rating: Decent
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WAR sub is pretty much needed from the time you're able to use a subjob. Early on, you'll just get Provoke and a few improved stats. Some folks vouch for DRG sub at early levels due to early attack bonuses and such. By 30 (when you get Berserk), you should be using WAR sub though. Do yourself a favor and go ahead and level WAR to 37 so you can put it behind you.

THF sub starts being seen around 60 when you can use SATA for your weaponskills. But just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. WHM and NIN subs should take priority over THF sub. I'll probably level it after I've put a lot of merits into MNK and get capped staff skill. Until then, I see no use for it. But do what you want to do..
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#4 Feb 20 2006 at 8:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, go ahead and get warrior out of the way. Back before I really got into Monk, Thf was my main and I needed to level War, so I could level Nin, so I could level Thf some more. I just decided to go ahead and get it out of the way once and for all, and I'm glad I did. I went from lv 15 to 37 in ten days. Luckily, my brother is a pack-rat and had saved all of his old War gear, so I only had to buy a few items here and there and food.

Now, the path is clear for Mnk to 75, Nin once I take it up again, and Sam, Drg, and Drk should I decide to play them.
#5 Feb 21 2006 at 2:41 AM Rating: Good
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I see from your sig that you enjoy leveling a lot of different jobs. I think you'll find that having a leveled WAR sub can be really helpful for much more than just subbing to monk. It's just a good thing to have if you're going to play melee jobs.
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#6 Feb 21 2006 at 2:43 AM Rating: Decent
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When should I use THF sub?


When farming during your wait for PT invites.
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#7 Feb 21 2006 at 4:53 AM Rating: Decent
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WAR is needed as this gives you the best spread of Abilities to give your MNK the best DoT, which are all helpful due to;
-Beserk
-Double Attack
-Warcry
-Provoke (Everyone loves a Voke if the MOB is sprinting at the WHM)

THF really only comes in handy at 60+ and even then it's situational to Hate control for the pty. If you were in a pty with a NIN and no THF you would provide as the Hate stamp onto NIN. This can be done with either SATA ~> Howling Fist once you first open SATA then later for SATA ~> Dragon Kick.

Other then using THF in a hate control enviroment you really won't use it in normal EXP setups unless needed. THF's other role is just a normal sub to go our farming if you do that (more and more craft now.)

#8 Feb 21 2006 at 10:53 AM Rating: Decent
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I have yet to level THF past lvl 18, I have no interest in ever using it. I will eventually level it so I can use it for farming and to have it as a WAR sub, but outside of that I really see no need in using it.

Hell I have a lvl 75MNK buddy of mine who spent a month leveling his THF to 37 while his MNK was still in the 60s, and he was never asked to use it. There are so many other jobs that go /THF that MNK really doesn't need to these days.

So WAR should be your primary subjob from 18-75 on your MNK. You can level THF for flexibility and farming, but I wouldn't expect to use it too much.

NIN and WHM will be needed endgame, but thats another story.

Edited, Tue Feb 21 11:00:20 2006 by DDragonace
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#9 Feb 21 2006 at 11:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, what they said. /WAR is your bread and butter. You could level Monk to 75 with no other subjobs and no one will really care.

Go level WAR to 40, stash a set of passable 30 & 40 cap gear for BCNMs and CoP, and you're set for life. Every DD job you ever play can put /War to good use. It's big fun to level too...go get an Axe and a Great Axe and beat the heck out of things.
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#10 Feb 21 2006 at 11:42 AM Rating: Default
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Warrior is not needed at all, there are plenty of great subjobs for monks. No reason to limit yourself to only one. You should always try out a variety of options, expecilly for subjobs. Then you can make a final descision after throughly testing each one.
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#11 Feb 21 2006 at 11:57 AM Rating: Decent
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I leveled my war to 37 then thf,nin and now working on whm. I have been asked to sub /thf about 10-20 times for xp(strictly hate control with nin tank), subbed /thf on my own about 5-10 times(loves those 1k dmg dk + 1k dmg light sc's) but /war is where the dmg lies.

There is too much potential dd behind /war with +attack bonus, +defense bonus(not as much), Provoke(I have saved many many careless blm's and whm's lives with my provoke ... it is very useful), the meat of /war is Double Attack... this is just godly for mnk, seems to proc every other round. Berserk(and warcry but not as much) is another awesome ja from /war. Berserk helps get as much dmg out of each punch possible. In the end you won't regret leveling war to 37.

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#12 Feb 21 2006 at 12:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Warrior is not needed at all, there are plenty of great subjobs for monks. No reason to limit yourself to only one. You should always try out a variety of options, expecilly for subjobs. Then you can make a final descision after throughly testing each one.


Please do not spread false information here. WAR is the bread and butter for all Melee jobs, and should be leveled first before any other sub. Just because you made it to 70+ with some rediculous job combo doesn't mean others should follow suit. WAR sub gives you some of the best DD boost in the game for good DoT.
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#13 Feb 21 2006 at 3:09 PM Rating: Decent
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War sub is like water to Mnk... you can't really stay alive without it. Yeah I know, it's plain and you're just another clone of the bunch of the mnks who level up the same time as you are... but it works.. and it works well so who cares?

Yes, you can drink beer (/Drk) instead, but you will get drunk and beat up other people and you will get gang bang in the end of the day anyway. And no, taking a bath with beer is out of the question since mithras hate that smell. You will have to resort to sand bath or dirt bath or even mud bath (I wonder how you get clean with that one).... aka you need to have a lot of money.

Also, you can drink milk (/Whm) but you will be called a mama's baby until they change it and call you a child man; though I think Mnk/Whm makes a good solo job. Milk bath is for ladies onry -_-;

Finally you can drink coke for the rest of your life (/Thf). It's a fine sub but it's no cheap to drink coke 24/7 and take a bath in it compare to water (unless you drink bottled water); and it's ichy after the water dry. Same deal as drinking beer but a bit cheaper...
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#14 Feb 21 2006 at 7:42 PM Rating: Decent
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I would have to argue some facts all. I currently do play as a MNK/WAR so I can get PT invites but on occasion if I create my own Party I sub dark knight. Monks attack often enough. Understandable that you will not be getting the frequent double attacks. War makes more steady DOT. Thf IMO pointless untill your staff skill is maxed and 65 when you dragon kick. DRK is great Weaponskill damage just make sure you dont commit suicide like I did with a 1800 howling fists,and you do have last resort the Ghetto version of berserk. Whm is needed end game from what I have seen already so I have leveled it. Whm sub is great for Chi-blast. Not alot of mobs can resist Chi-blast so its very valluable in HNM fights as well as higher Mission fights.
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#15 Feb 21 2006 at 8:00 PM Rating: Good
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There is no equal substitute for /WAR before endgame - at 74/75 /NIN is probably more all-round useful but that's an alternative *not* a replacement.

Obviously you can sub other things for situational use, but for xp purposes /WAR should always be available and levelled appropriately or you are genuinely hindering yourself. It's simply the most useful and party effective combo currently available.
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#16 Feb 21 2006 at 11:02 PM Rating: Decent
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I will be leveling THF to 40 for one purpose, and one only.

SATA+Full Swing.

It's a waste in xp.
#17 Feb 21 2006 at 11:23 PM Rating: Default
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DRK is great Weaponskill damage just make sure you dont commit suicide like I did with a 1800 howling fists


Let me get this straight, you did 1800 dmg with Howling Fist on exp mob? I'd like to know what mob, where, and how if you have some spare seconds to explain.

As for the OP, I guess you could see how important WAR sub is for MNK from most posts here, so I'm just gonna say WAR is the ONLY sub I'd use for MNK.
#18 Feb 22 2006 at 1:22 AM Rating: Decent
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I've seen some Mnk/Thf throw up some nice numbers with SATA+Boost+WS. I was watching one of my buddies a bit in Bibiki Bay while I was coin farming, and the Mnk/Thf in his party did a 1100 dmg SATA+Boost+Dragon Kick on a Goblin there, I was pretty impressed. Though from my experience you will want to use /war until you are able to close light. But, if you have to close light and have a good War who can rip hate, then why not use /Thf to sata ws back to tank?
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#19 Feb 22 2006 at 10:18 AM Rating: Decent
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I was watching one of my buddies a bit in Bibiki Bay while I was coin farming, and the Mnk/Thf in his party did a 1100 dmg SATA+Boost+Dragon Kick on a Goblin there, I was pretty impressed.



You were impressed? Well I guess you didnt see the gimp damage he was doing with his normal attacks, they were probably doing 20-35 dmg max. Without the Attack bonus and the use of Berserk with /WAR, all a MNK/THF really is is a one trick pony. They can push out some impressive numbers on WS, but the rest of the time their dmg is subpar. Sorry just had to comment. :P

As eveyone has said WAR is the best sub for MNK and for most melee jobs in this game. If you want to make it anywhere you're gonna have to have it lvled on you are simply gimping yourself.
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#20 Feb 22 2006 at 10:40 AM Rating: Decent
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ou were impressed? Well I guess you didnt see the gimp damage he was doing with his normal attacks, they were probably doing 20-35 dmg max. Without the Attack bonus and the use of Berserk with /WAR, all a MNK/THF really is is a one trick pony. They can push out some impressive numbers on WS, but the rest of the time their dmg is subpar. Sorry just had to comment. :P
Your damage doesn't just go to sh*t by changing your sub to thf. I subbed thf a lot in Bibiki and I was still doing 50-60 damage on regular attacks. In most pts I still pulled hate from regular attacks subbing thf. I still like war better but you still do good damage subbing thf.

Edited, Wed Feb 22 10:41:12 2006 by Exalraj
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#21 Feb 22 2006 at 2:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Without the Attack bonus and the use of Berserk with /WAR, all a MNK/THF really is is a one trick pony. They can push out some impressive numbers on WS, but the rest of the time their dmg is subpar.


That is what drk/thf amounts to yet oddly, no one complains about that, makes me glad I stayed as drk/war all the way for exp.
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#22 Feb 22 2006 at 2:12 PM Rating: Decent
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My philosophy on THF sub is this:

A monk should only choose to sub THF over WAR if the tank cannot keep control of hate, and if a tank cannot keep control of hate without someone walking him through it with SATA, then I don't want to be in the party.

Hell, I pull hate alot...ALOT, but I like doing it, and it's educational for the tanks as well, showing them that they have to work endgame and not putz around as a thief leads them by the hand. There are many great subjobs for Monk, but in experience points situations prior to endgame, Warrior is the only choice for exceptional results negating hate factor. Ninja is excellent endgame during times when you need to tank, and WHM is the greatest for Chi Blast, but only in those situations are they alternatives for WAR. Now, DRG sub on the other hand, I've seen Truedragon sub DRG with exceptionally frightening results, but only because he had Faith Bangkahs for Double Attack...who needs Provoke when you get that much hate; props to Truedragon btw. DRK sub...if you need to Stun something...SAM sub...Ballista FTW. Anything else is just subpar to those choices; in short, don't let parties gimp you with THF sub for the big show of one number, sub WAR and cap that evasion!
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#23 Feb 22 2006 at 7:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Why is being a versatile player such a bad thing? Even without double attack a Monk is going to get TP pretty fast. If you need to put up some good numbers on a SC to close it and can have someone pull hate for you to do it, then why not close it by putting it all back on the Tank? I get so tired of people saying that there is only one way to play a job. Yes if you are in a Mnk burn pt then /war is going to be a great SJ for the pt's purposes. But if you are able to adjust to the pt's needs and be versatile, that just makes you a better player. I saw a video of a one of the great monks on Bismarck Server in a pt with 2 mnk, nin, blm, rdm, brd. 3 way light Howling Fist >> Red Lotus Blade >> SATA Dragon Kick. Badda bing! Last remnants of mob used to regain TP. Don't flame someone because they found a way to make a job more versatile, if it doesn't work for you, then don't do it, but just cause it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it won't work for everyone.
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#24 Feb 22 2006 at 11:54 PM Rating: Decent
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To anyone who talks about versatility:

Try this sometime...draw a rather large circle (at least a foot radial) on a piece of paper. Now take a golf ball sized chunk of play-dough or something similar, and try to spread it evenly along the entirety of the circle. See how far you get and how thin the material becomes.

Now do it in one specific direction. Notice the difference in how far the dough reaches, as well as how thick it is?


Versatility isn't a bad thing, but really. You're doing a half-assed job at not only your role as a primary DD, but as a hate controller. Get a THF if your tank really needs that help, because that nice little Assassin trait will save your butt in a pinch.

Edit: And stop bringing up "zomg weaponskill dameeg!!11~11`12" when talking about /THF. /WAR is just as capable of high numbers, and they hit higher per fist to boot.

Edited, Wed Feb 22 23:57:56 2006 by Norellicus
#25 Feb 23 2006 at 12:04 AM Rating: Good
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Versatility is fine, but usually it's just some knucklehead trying to prove to the world that they're special, and they can make X subjob work.

WAR....just works. When I'm making a party, I don't have to worry about the guy killing himself, or missing SATA, or whatever. It's just plain old reliable.

Besides, I still don't know how people can overcome the feeling of slowness that comes with non-war. Even with a brutal earring I feel so slow when I'm /nin.

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#26 Feb 23 2006 at 2:17 PM Rating: Good
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My 2 cents is that MNK is master of DoT. Come to think of it, with /WAR, he pretty much owns DoT. MNK/THF can increase impact damage of WS's when mated with SATA + Boost. Hell you can even max out your Boosts, SATA, engage -> WS (@100+TP of course) for some pretty fireworks at the start of the fight. I did 1K+ to Arch Lich as THF/MNK with SATA + RF. Does that mean that thieves should all sub /MNK? Nope. That was a situational environment where it happend to be a bone mob, so I dressed for the occasion. I agree that /WAR is best all around SJ for MNK. I also believe that WAR CAN be the only SJ MNK "needs" to get to 75 in exp. There are plenty of WAR/THFs, DRK/THF's, lol THF/THF's (jk), etc for hate control. This allows MNK to do what he/she does best, and that is DoT, and later on Impact damage WS's. With out double attack, where is the benefit of a hasted MNK's TP gain? Not like subbing THF helps TP gain. It hurts it. So you can SATA Howling/Dragon all you want, But I guarantee that the MNK/WAR in the other PT is averaging more WS's than "you". Not to mention any hate you might pull as /WAR which is more probable if you are pawning off some of your hate on the Tank, will add more TP, and occasional Counter's.

All right, i'm done babbling. WAR is the most efficient SJ for MNK. No other SJ is needed, for exp purpose, but can be usefull. So if you want a loaded tool box for exp invites, or simply for MNK proficiency, level WAR, THF (Hate control/Farm/Flee), NIN (Tank/solo), SAM (TP gain/Thirdeye), WHM (Buffs/-Naspells/raise/Cure/Chiblast/Teleport)

Edited, Thu Feb 23 14:27:37 2006 by HeavenscryWeapon
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#27 Feb 23 2006 at 6:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Edited, Fri Mar 10 16:33:14 2006 by Kimeris
#28 Feb 23 2006 at 7:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Well I had every intention of levelling thf to 37 for sub but nah. I subbed war 1-75. Except when i ballista that's Drg sub ;o.
But as numerous people said war is the best DoT. So level it. use it. love it. (Plus double attack pwns)

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#29 Feb 26 2006 at 6:03 AM Rating: Decent
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i used to use /thf because as elvaan i thought i needed the Dex boost, i was wrong, i switched to /war at 39 and never looked back. ill give you an example, last night in a party in Onzozo, there was 2 monks, me at 59 with /war and another at 61 with /thf...the only time he out damaged me was during SATA howling fist. and we had approximately the same gear, and used the same food and we were both elvaan...also, i REALLY like berserk+focus for weapon skills, specially for raging fists.
#30 Feb 26 2006 at 9:09 AM Rating: Good
For exp, a monks job is to do the most Damage Over Time (DOT) during the battle. We don't do this by using a huge WS with a /THF and/or /DRK (Smiley: disappointed), we do it by punching as fast and as hard as possible.

/WAR allows us to:

1) Double Attack.

What's that mean? It means you can get an extra fucking attack. Without a brutal earring, no other job allows this. Post 51, the more you attack, the more you kick: which is another fucking attack.

You will cream your shorts when you see your charachter attack 4 times (1 attack round: which is two punches, 2 double attacks) and kick on the end.

Your tank will hate you, as will the /THF's and /DRK monks who lurk here.

2) Beserk

Beserk increases your attack for 2 minutes. /DRK has an inferior version of this. /THF doesn't even have that.

3) Warcry

It's a quickie Zerk.

The only thing us monks really worry about is damage. Everything we wear we do so to increase our damage output. ATK and STR are our primary concerns, any other stat besides ACC is not really a concern.

Endgame, we have our own little playground called King Ranperre's Tomb (KRT). We go down there to rape skeletons.
A MNK/THF will suck there standing next to two MNK/WAR's.

A MNK/DRK would die, a lot, in KRT. I'd totally invite one to watch it.

Sure, you can play the game however you like. However, if you plan on finishing the game and meriting, you better have WAR at 37. Or you'll be missing out on some of the greatest EXP in the game.

And it's the most fun I've ever had in EXP.
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#31 Feb 26 2006 at 10:29 AM Rating: Decent
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one thing i have yet to see anyone say is /SAM...

you know what lvl my WAR is right now its lvl 15 and i got Monk to lvl 62 before i even thought about lvling my WAR LMAO

yes a WAR has some increas attack damage on a Weapon Skill but its main use is the Provoke witch in some cases you need.

i have used SAM my whole monk life and im proud of it i have never been kicked from a party and they like the fact that i can SC with 2 people with meditate

and in some rare cases you can even SC with yourself witch is F-ing sweet lmao i love it.

its up to you want you want if you goo with the norm then /WAR is the thing to do. A /THF is a good SATA for ya and SAM is good TP its all about what you want. i love Sam and if i had it my way i would never sub WAR but like i said you do need that provoke sometimes thats why i am lvling it.

But the first thing i say when joining a party will be i am a /SAM is that ok. if not i will change but thats if i must. so do what you got to do thanks for your time.

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#32 Feb 26 2006 at 11:54 AM Rating: Good
WFOAssassin: Smiley: banghead

Read what I wrote. Notice how provoke is missing?
Provoke doesn't add damage. Our job is to do damage.
This is why we /WAR.

Provoke is nice to have if you have a tank that can't keep hate off a mage.

Provoke is also nice for the tank to use to keep hate off of you if you're using 2 WS during 1 fight >.>

Your post made me Smiley: cry


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#33 Nov 16 2012 at 7:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Sorry, Omegavegeta. This is an old noob looking at a new noob post. lol. I hope you are over it now.
#34 Nov 17 2012 at 5:18 PM Rating: Good
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Holy crap this is an olde thread.
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LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#35 Dec 18 2012 at 7:19 AM Rating: Decent
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i hope he learned how to english better in the interim between his last post and this head-scratcher of a necro.
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monk
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