How bad is WAR sub needed?Follow

War sub is greatly needed, only sub thf if you are asked to and its actually for a good reason. You will use /war for almost all your XP until endgame when other subs come into play.

Yeah, go ahead and get warrior out of the way. Back before I really got into Monk, Thf was my main and I needed to level War, so I could level Nin, so I could level Thf some more. I just decided to go ahead and get it out of the way once and for all, and I'm glad I did. I went from lv 15 to 37 in ten days. Luckily, my brother is a pack-rat and had saved all of his old War gear, so I only had to buy a few items here and there and food.

Now, the path is clear for Mnk to 75, Nin once I take it up again, and Sam, Drg, and Drk should I decide to play them.

When farming during your wait for PT invites.

I have yet to level THF past lvl 18, I have no interest in ever using it. I will eventually level it so I can use it for farming and to have it as a WAR sub, but outside of that I really see no need in using it.

Hell I have a lvl 75MNK buddy of mine who spent a month leveling his THF to 37 while his MNK was still in the 60s, and he was never asked to use it. There are so many other jobs that go /THF that MNK really doesn't need to these days.

So WAR should be your primary subjob from 18-75 on your MNK. You can level THF for flexibility and farming, but I wouldn't expect to use it too much.

NIN and WHM will be needed endgame, but thats another story.

Edited, Tue Feb 21 11:00:20 2006 by DDragonace

Warrior is not needed at all, there are plenty of great subjobs for monks. No reason to limit yourself to only one. You should always try out a variety of options, expecilly for subjobs. Then you can make a final descision after throughly testing each one.

Please do not spread false information here. WAR is the bread and butter for all Melee jobs, and should be leveled first before any other sub. Just because you made it to 70+ with some rediculous job combo doesn't mean others should follow suit. WAR sub gives you some of the best DD boost in the game for good DoT.

I would have to argue some facts all. I currently do play as a MNK/WAR so I can get PT invites but on occasion if I create my own Party I sub dark knight. Monks attack often enough. Understandable that you will not be getting the frequent double attacks. War makes more steady DOT. Thf IMO pointless untill your staff skill is maxed and 65 when you dragon kick. DRK is great Weaponskill damage just make sure you dont commit suicide like I did with a 1800 howling fists,and you do have last resort the Ghetto version of berserk. Whm is needed end game from what I have seen already so I have leveled it. Whm sub is great for Chi-blast. Not alot of mobs can resist Chi-blast so its very valluable in HNM fights as well as higher Mission fights.

I will be leveling THF to 40 for one purpose, and one only.

SATA+Full Swing.

It's a waste in xp.

I've seen some Mnk/Thf throw up some nice numbers with SATA+Boost+WS. I was watching one of my buddies a bit in Bibiki Bay while I was coin farming, and the Mnk/Thf in his party did a 1100 dmg SATA+Boost+Dragon Kick on a Goblin there, I was pretty impressed. Though from my experience you will want to use /war until you are able to close light. But, if you have to close light and have a good War who can rip hate, then why not use /Thf to sata ws back to tank?

Your damage doesn't just go to sh*t by changing your sub to thf. I subbed thf a lot in Bibiki and I was still doing 50-60 damage on regular attacks. In most pts I still pulled hate from regular attacks subbing thf. I still like war better but you still do good damage subbing thf.

Edited, Wed Feb 22 10:41:12 2006 by Exalraj

My philosophy on THF sub is this:

A monk should only choose to sub THF over WAR if the tank cannot keep control of hate, and if a tank cannot keep control of hate without someone walking him through it with SATA, then I don't want to be in the party.

Hell, I pull hate alot...ALOT, but I like doing it, and it's educational for the tanks as well, showing them that they have to work endgame and not putz around as a thief leads them by the hand. There are many great subjobs for Monk, but in experience points situations prior to endgame, Warrior is the only choice for exceptional results negating hate factor. Ninja is excellent endgame during times when you need to tank, and WHM is the greatest for Chi Blast, but only in those situations are they alternatives for WAR. Now, DRG sub on the other hand, I've seen Truedragon sub DRG with exceptionally frightening results, but only because he had Faith Bangkahs for Double Attack...who needs Provoke when you get that much hate; props to Truedragon btw. DRK sub...if you need to Stun something...SAM sub...Ballista FTW. Anything else is just subpar to those choices; in short, don't let parties gimp you with THF sub for the big show of one number, sub WAR and cap that evasion!

To anyone who talks about versatility:

Try this sometime...draw a rather large circle (at least a foot radial) on a piece of paper. Now take a golf ball sized chunk of play-dough or something similar, and try to spread it evenly along the entirety of the circle. See how far you get and how thin the material becomes.

Now do it in one specific direction. Notice the difference in how far the dough reaches, as well as how thick it is?


Versatility isn't a bad thing, but really. You're doing a half-assed job at not only your role as a primary DD, but as a hate controller. Get a THF if your tank really needs that help, because that nice little Assassin trait will save your butt in a pinch.

Edit: And stop bringing up "zomg weaponskill dameeg!!11~11`12" when talking about /THF. /WAR is just as capable of high numbers, and they hit higher per fist to boot.

Edited, Wed Feb 22 23:57:56 2006 by Norellicus

Burn me Alive, Im bored at work...

My 2 cents is that MNK is master of DoT. Come to think of it, with /WAR, he pretty much owns DoT. MNK/THF can increase impact damage of WS's when mated with SATA + Boost. Hell you can even max out your Boosts, SATA, engage -> WS (@100+TP of course) for some pretty fireworks at the start of the fight. I did 1K+ to Arch Lich as THF/MNK with SATA + RF. Does that mean that thieves should all sub /MNK? Nope. That was a situational environment where it happend to be a bone mob, so I dressed for the occasion. I agree that /WAR is best all around SJ for MNK. I also believe that WAR CAN be the only SJ MNK "needs" to get to 75 in exp. There are plenty of WAR/THFs, DRK/THF's, lol THF/THF's (jk), etc for hate control. This allows MNK to do what he/she does best, and that is DoT, and later on Impact damage WS's. With out double attack, where is the benefit of a hasted MNK's TP gain? Not like subbing THF helps TP gain. It hurts it. So you can SATA Howling/Dragon all you want, But I guarantee that the MNK/WAR in the other PT is averaging more WS's than "you". Not to mention any hate you might pull as /WAR which is more probable if you are pawning off some of your hate on the Tank, will add more TP, and occasional Counter's.

All right, i'm done babbling. WAR is the most efficient SJ for MNK. No other SJ is needed, for exp purpose, but can be usefull. So if you want a loaded tool box for exp invites, or simply for MNK proficiency, level WAR, THF (Hate control/Farm/Flee), NIN (Tank/solo), SAM (TP gain/Thirdeye), WHM (Buffs/-Naspells/raise/Cure/Chiblast/Teleport)

Edited, Thu Feb 23 14:27:37 2006 by HeavenscryWeapon

Well I had every intention of levelling thf to 37 for sub but nah. I subbed war 1-75. Except when i ballista that's Drg sub ;o.
But as numerous people said war is the best DoT. So level it. use it. love it. (Plus double attack pwns)

Sahaya.

For exp, a monks job is to do the most Damage Over Time (DOT) during the battle. We don't do this by using a huge WS with a /THF and/or /DRK (), we do it by punching as fast and as hard as possible.

/WAR allows us to:

1) Double Attack.

What's that mean? It means you can get an extra fucking attack. Without a brutal earring, no other job allows this. Post 51, the more you attack, the more you kick: which is another fucking attack.

You will cream your shorts when you see your charachter attack 4 times (1 attack round: which is two punches, 2 double attacks) and kick on the end.

Your tank will hate you, as will the /THF's and /DRK monks who lurk here.

2) Beserk

Beserk increases your attack for 2 minutes. /DRK has an inferior version of this. /THF doesn't even have that.

3) Warcry

It's a quickie Zerk.

The only thing us monks really worry about is damage. Everything we wear we do so to increase our damage output. ATK and STR are our primary concerns, any other stat besides ACC is not really a concern.

Endgame, we have our own little playground called King Ranperre's Tomb (KRT). We go down there to rape skeletons.
A MNK/THF will suck there standing next to two MNK/WAR's.

A MNK/DRK would die, a lot, in KRT. I'd totally invite one to watch it.

Sure, you can play the game however you like. However, if you plan on finishing the game and meriting, you better have WAR at 37. Or you'll be missing out on some of the greatest EXP in the game.

And it's the most fun I've ever had in EXP.

WFOAssassin:

Read what I wrote. Notice how provoke is missing?
Provoke doesn't add damage. Our job is to do damage.
This is why we /WAR.

Provoke is nice to have if you have a tank that can't keep hate off a mage.

Provoke is also nice for the tank to use to keep hate off of you if you're using 2 WS during 1 fight >.>

Your post made me

Holy crap this is an olde thread.