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Your timing is subpar, the only time I melee before I steal an ice spikes is if I'm zoned out and not paying attention. In 100% of situations where I'm paying attention I always get the steal off before I melee with ice spikes on.

Except for these situations:

1) Mob comes with many buffs, dispel has a 10s recast (and that mage might just have other things to cast)
2) Mob uses an ability that gives two buffs
3) You actually don't have a dispel!

Bard, Red mage, scholar...all pretty rare these days. I think you'd only see them in larger parties/alliances and even then, maybe only 1-2 of them. The likelihood of no dispel or limited dispel is pretty high.

Also, having a Blm/rdm is pretty common in any party these days.

A Blm/rdm sure is handy as well.

Riposte!

December....

The key to it is that he's not a clearly obvious troll, so he doesn't make people completely ignore him. Added on, I'm very good at getting people to respond to most of my posts, so the more I respond, the more likely it's going to make someone want to respond.

People want the forums back alive, and that's what I do. Factual, mature, understanding posts only get responses for as long as new information comes out. New information is nearly dead, therefore only arguments are left to keep the forums going. Sometimes you have to push them a bit.

No one is stating it is "game breaking". Just that the advantage of 4/5 to 5/5 AC is so minor it is absurd to give up a whole other utility aspect of the job for it.

But you aren't giving up a whole utility aspect of the job. You are giving up a very lame dispel (that is dependant on the success rate of item steal) and tied to a 5 minute recast timer. The ACTUAL utility of which, is very very very low.

Not everything. But a dispel on a 5 minute timer defintely is.

Then again, 5 minutes is really too long for any steal ability imo.

Edited, Jun 15th 2011 5:48pm by Nebo1

The thing that I'm laughing most about is everyone's attempt to prove superiority of AS or AC by calculating marginal, statistical utility of both skills. For me, that's not the point.

I have NO PROBLEM with my damage output without AC. I triple attack all by myself with astounding regularity - we all agree on 5/5 triple. I don't need AC to do that. My ego doesn't require additional stroking - I manage quite well in that department already, lol.

However, I have NO ability to dispel a mob aside from acid bolts and with only 1/5 AS, next to no ability to apply longer term buffs to myself when soloing. And I solo a lot on thf.

To each his own. I'm very happy with my 5/5 AS and don't miss the AC one bit.

Oh and for Aanalaty, I laugh at both your Mustang and Camaro in my Subaru STi (I'm old - it's my mid life crisis car). :)

Glsd you love your car Aanalaty. That's the main thing.

The STi was perfect for me (and a real hoot on the track). When Subaru offered a hatch back design, that was it for me (I was also looking at the Mitsu Evo X and the BMW 135i). I hated the "boy racer" look with the garish big wing of the older sedan versions. My STi now has great performance -and- great everyday utility.

Hmmmm. Kinda what this thread is about in my view.

PS

Performance of cars these days is insane. When I was younger, a friend of mine had a Dodge Challenger. This wasn't the hemi but a 440-6pack with over 400 HP. My STi will do faster 0-60 and 1/4 mile than that car did.

And good on you for going stick!

Edited, Jun 16th 2011 7:04am by Lokithor

I was actually thinking about the 135i when i was looking for a little bit. But I was really leaning with either an avenger, malibu, and even a chevy cobalt for a bit. I was always a very 'practical' driver. I just wanted to go from point A to point B. Little econo box 4 seater was all i ever wanted my entire life. I never cared about horsepower or top speed. Then a guy at work started pushing me towards the BMW 135i and I thought it was OK, but i didnt really care to pay that much for a 'fast car' (insert practical mindset).

Then I saw the camaro on the chevy site....and i was in luv. And it actually came in the exact color i have wanted in a car for my entire life (which is notoriously hard to find i have found)....and i was sold (the color they no longer carry stock). Ironically, i had already decided to buy it before i even knew it was in the transformers movie, so I can rest easy i didnt get pulled in by some childhood transformers nostalgia/marketing ploy.

1.5 years later, I havent once had a moment of weakness where i 'wish' i bought something else. Still exceptionally happy with it. Im keepin this baby for a looooooong time ^_^

Speaking of blue awesome things, i am now 12.5% done with my mythic at 3763 alexandrite. Lets hope i dont grow to hate that color before i finish this exceptionally PITA quest xD

.....oh yeah...topic >_>

umm....lets see here...tie this back in here, connect that over there, AH TOPIC!

Mustangs are lame! (5/5 AC is LAME!)It may have a sliver more acceleration out the gate (hair more damage on command), but in the long run on an ideal track, you will loose out to the top speed of camaros (The times AS is VERY good even if rare) and the harder to measure non speed (damage) benefits of better gas milage (MP/cast time/attention saved on mages). Besides, camaros are more than fast enough (4/5 AC has enough damage) for every day use that you wont really 'miss' that extra few tenths of a second on a 0-60, even though it might make you 'feel' better 'knowing' its there (the damage is a placebo even though it makes no practical difference for daily use).

Besides, if max speed (personal epeen) is all you care about to the extent that you would give up that gas milage and potential, though rare, top speed (rather have that 1 more triple every 15 than general utility), shouldnt you just forgo all gas milage and other benefits and go buy (level) a Corvette or even some supercar? (Drg, War, Drk out of abyssea, etc)

That sucks for the Mustangs and Camaros

No, it really, really isn't. Just like saying having katon is a pretty rare if you ever party with a THF. Sure, the THF may be gimp and not have NIN sub or tools, but every good one will. Just like every good mage will be subbing SCH or RDM. Exception being BRD who guess what? Has a native dispel. Given the standard duo is WHM + anything, if your WHM is wanting to be too lazy to carry a scroll or cudgel, then well...

Same goes for even BLMs. Unless they want to have a cheap teleport, they should be subbing SCH or RDM.

You didn't land feint until 17:36:56. Which was 13 seconds after the evasion boost. Once you landed it, you hit all except one swing. And you only had 1:45 seconds til you could use it again. I never said feint invalidated the use of Aura steal, I said its smaller recast timer makes it MORE useful for dispelling evasion boosts that aura steal.

Edit: Speaking of which. SA and TA should function like feint where if you don't land it, it isn't wasted. I still have people in my linkshell that dodge TA like they aren't tanking anyway with the entire LS at capped hate...

Edited, Jun 17th 2011 8:57am by Meldi

Or, you could, you know, just have BOTH AS and Feint and have the best of both worlds >_> Then instead of figuing out which is MORE useful, you can just have the BEST eva-downing thf is capable of without any fancy smancy thinking.

Kinda like you can use acids AND steal protect. You can use both feint and AS. Such an intriguing idea..../strokes beard thoughtfully.

They are not mutually exclusive.

Edited, Jun 17th 2011 1:49pm by Banalaty

Sigh is a VERY strong, but rather short-lasting (duration may vary by TP; idk), evasion boost. By the time you were able to land the Feint hit, the effect was probably close to wearing off if not gone already :p

You have shown 0 reasons where the difference between 4/5 and 5/5 AC matters. I have shown one example thus far, with more existing (there are other mobs out there with evasion boost moves, including THF ones). And since it's been established many times this is a debate over putting 1 into AS or 0 into AS, proving that AS has some worth means that it is to be taken.

Huh? You're saying that they shouldn't be TA'ing you? The way TH works now, thieves should be SA and TA every time the timer is up in order to ratchet up the TH level. If you're already tanking, you're the logical person to TA onto. If you object to tanking, get the thf to collaborator you afterward (although that's a waste of an ability that should be helping to shed hate from jobs less able to deal with it than war).

That would be a rather excellent way to get her killed, yes.

And OH MY GOD GUYS

YOU COULD ONLY DO THAT TACTIC EVERY 5 MINUTES!

Accomplice? (Which is also on a 5 minute timer XD)?

Or you could....

TA (in non TA set) > Feint > Collaborator. Your friend should not be recieving hate from that anyway though.

ACC swap > Feint.

There really are a few ways to deal with that situation without AS.


Edited, Jun 18th 2011 11:17am by Nebo1

No, I was just responding to your statement that AS is so much more useful than feint for dealing with evasion buffs like Sigh.

It isn't. Also, most tonberries have items to steal.

But I agree with what has been said that it really isn't a question of either or, since you can have both. I just don't see the need to have both, and I don't see much value in AS as it exists currently.

Edited, Jun 18th 2011 12:25pm by Nebo1

For starters, because you can use it more than twice as often as AS.





Position yourself correctly to beging with?



SA/TA are nice for landing it but also not really needed. A few choice pieces of gear for an acc swap to land feint should be sufficient for sigh. It's not like we have a shortage of very strong acc pieces when the situation arises.



They might not. I know they have despoilable items but I don't think I've ever tried to steal anything from them using "steal"