Atma caps at + 95% critical hit rateFollow

EDIT: I'm going to edit this post because the data is over a month old and incorrect. When I first made this thread I did not have the gnarled horn and I did some testing data on DD + RR fighting Ika Roa and got approximately 77% crit hit rate, at which point someone suggested this



This was the general understanding some of us had at the time (if I remember correctly this was a quote from an old bg thread someone brought up), but since then a lot more data has been gathered. If you stack Razed Ruins + Gnarled Horn + Dark Depths it will take your melee crit rate straight to 95%. That means the follows

Critical hit RATE caps at 95%
Critical hit DAMAGE increase caps at + 50%

Edited, Jan 12th 2011 1:53pm by Melphina

Just making sure, but do we know for a fact that the 'major' crit rate from dark depths is 30%? I believe a few atmas have different values for the same effect even if they are labeled as the same potency 'tier' (either that or the numbers are just guesstimated leading to inconsistencies).

Has dark depths been tested alone for crit rate? (i assume RR is set in stone now, though i have not personally tested or seen tests....maybe assuming to much?)

Just to make sure we are not assuming more than we should and extrapolating wrong results from false base assumptions.

lol this is why i need to start parsing again regularly. I could have had this info long ago xD

I don't parse that often, but I will run Kparser when I'm interested in finding stuff out. I got a new pc a few months ago and it's pretty damn badass so I may do what LordTrey is doing and just parse everything. It's nice to know this stuff and it does help with gear choices. As a side I only had an average value of about 41 damage on melee which is close to a 1.0 pDIF, but I was using Dark depths and Razed Ruins so I believe my fSTR may not have been capped either. I have yet to get my 3rd lunar abyssite, but it's good to know that atma crit rate caps at +50%. I was wondering if my af3 legs were impacting my crit rate or not, and it sees they were (LafingCat's info is very useful). I always filter outside damage so parsing can only help. I'll be curious to see what kinds of values other mobs return on a per hit damage ratio. I think I'll go back to RR + SA or maybe RR + VV for pure damage until I get my 3rd lunar. I lack too much attack in the new zones and I don't think Dark depths is worth it yet. Maybe RR + AO + DD, but I still think there's a place for VV or SA even with DD out, depending on overall attack. I'd definitely use DD in the scars and especially visions zones though, because I KNOW my attack is good there. Hero's zones raise the bar again by a lot, so I'm going to hold off on DD atma until I get more attack somehow.

First off



Yes, once you unlock a synthetic atma it becomes available in every zone. It's just a key item and as such works in all areas.



There are better choices than the dark depths for crit rate, I just don't have them yet. The Gnarled Horn is enough to cap crit rate and give a bigger agility boost but because of work I missed the runs where my shell farmed it, and I've been looking at the store tp atmas with curiosity as well. I didn't remember the scorpion queen until you brought it up, but it looks awesome. I'd like to see what a "Major" store tp atma would do to my tp gain. Thief never used to have any way to get sTP outside of corsair rolls and gear, and most of the gear with sTP was outclassed by haste/acc alternatives. Now we can do a lot more than before, so I'm trying to see what kind of sTP options I could add and where. I'm currently using Rajas/belenos's/brutal fr sTP +8, Loki's + goading belt would be +20 (or 15 with raiders vest +2). Kila +2/Rapidus gets 4.9 tp/hit and the atma of the scorpion queen would increase my crit rate to 50% as well as add +30 sTP for a total of 38 sTP (45 with loki's and 50 with goading and loki's). Instead of 4.9 tp/hit i would get 6.7 tp/hit with no gear changes, 7.1 with loki's, and 7.3 with loki's and goading. There's obvious diminishing returns after the atma is added so blue raider's vest is a sure bet over loki's if you have the scorpion queen and rajas/belenos/brutal, but goading is still a good upgrade and I can still cap haste with it, although I may want to fulltime my blue hands in lieu of homam one day.

I LIKE the scorpion queen and I LIKE Razed Ruins, but a 3rd atma is kinda up in the air. I'd probably choose the alpha/omega and let it be with that for dd, but I need 2 more zone boss kills for my 3rd lunar yet so it's a matter of time. My work schedule cuts into my playtime so I get done what I do as I can.

Edited, Dec 15th 2010 4:27pm by Melphina

I'm 100% positive that RR is 30%, yes.

(+/- 1% anyway >_> )

Edited, Dec 15th 2010 11:24pm by LafingCat

Just checking but is the 50%atma cap assumed here based on melphinas sample, or also based on a prior source?

Yeah I like Kirschy. OP to that Atma thread is here, but I didn't see anything about an atma cap.

Later on after work I dug a little bit further and I see that Cream Soda aka Vegetto tested it with about a sample of 600.

In any event Melphina's sample is bigger. It's not like we can say for 100% certainty her dDex was capped but if it was she would've done 78% like cat said. I guess it's safe for us to assume capped dDex is likely? In any event when the dDex:crit testing was going along, bigger changes than I expected could occur between even 10k and 20k samples; something like the difference between 18-20% crit rate iirc (or maybe a 1% diff). I'd say these two sample still look pretty decent tho. If there were any more doubt about it, someone could try using 3 crit rate atma.

There is a 99.9% chance that my dDex was capped everywhere. I broke down the parse by individual mobs and you can see the results between the NM and the Peak Pugils. Individual Mob Comparison

As you can see Ika-Roa has higher defense than the Peak Pugils (as a NM should). I only hit Ika-roa for an average of 39.36 but I hit Peak Pugils for 45.46 so that's 5 actual damage more and looks like approximately 10% difference in average pDIF. I highly DOUBT that Ika-Roa had identical agi as the peak pugils, but the crit rate was mirrored perfectly on both mobs. So unless the only difference between a NM and non NMs is defense and not agi/str/dex my dDEX was capped everywhere. I had over 210 dex in my MELEE build and if that wasn't enough to cap dDEX on a normal mob I'd be very shocked.

Edited, Dec 16th 2010 9:09pm by Melphina

150 hits is way too small when you're considering a XX/100 percentile. When I ran my data collection on razed ruins + sanguine scythe versus RR + SA I collected a sample size of 1K swings each, and I remember watching the averages change a lot until about 500-600 swings landed where they stabilized pretty well. I wouldn't call a test with a sample size of less than 600 swings reliable, but the ideal is in the range of 1,000.

Edited, Dec 16th 2010 10:12pm by Melphina

It would apear that pepole using RR/GH/DD are seeing near constant crit rates so...no 50% cap then I guess from atma? Over on the BG atma effects discussions more tests were done etc.

It IS superior critical rate. The patch notes included Razed Ruins in the changes. Look at it again in game.

Critical Hit Rate: Superior
Critical Damage: Major
Dex: Superior

Edited, Dec 24th 2010 8:31am by Melphina

Forgive me for bumping this, but I've seen my old OP referenced now and I went in and edited it to reflect more accurate information. Crit rate caps at 95% and atma does NOT cap at + 50% crit rate. There are still some people under the understanding that it does, so I wanted to clear that up.

So RR+VV+GH is best combo then?


Store TP+100 is best dagger for Evisceration?

Edited, Jan 13th 2011 7:32am by Lobivopis