Tranquil HeartFollow

I don't understand where you are going with this line of logic?

All I see is a job trait that reduces emnitity of cures that increases in effectiveness as those jobs goes up in level.

Many people, (RDMs specifically) believe that because SE is adding this trait, that they will change the hate generated by each cure. They then might remove the lower hate generation from Cure V and making it more in line with what a cure that powerful should be while keeping the hate generated for a WHM about the same due to the new trait. This opens up the possibility of SCH, RDM, and PLD getting cure V which SE probably believes is overpowered for SCH and RDM due to the small amount of hate it generates.


Not saying I agree or not, just what others are hoping for.

I'm actually one of those people that believe they shouldn't get Cure V, but.. yeah, i'm barely on my RDM and SCH anymore, heck, my RDM is still 88. I really just did never like it if they did get Cure V, i dunno why :/. But, yeah, that's just me, and my silly opinion. lol.

My only gripe with other jobs getting Cure V is that something needs to be done with Cure VI. The jump from Cure VI to V is pretty huge, but going from V to VI is almost unnoticeable.
It's really only useful as a double-up of cure V. And even that is somewhat meh, as its huge recast means it's not always available, and constantly relying on it is just subpar.

Cure VI is certainly not living up to what cure V meant to us at 75 (Or at 99...). Cure V is still our best cure, and I'd like something out of giving away our best asset.

This use to be the problem with cure V>.>

Anywho I can definately notice it if I happen to be stacking mind. Even without cap cure potency An old lsmate and I found that the number cap on cure VI seems to be 1.4k. Unless some major coincidense happen that his capped cure potency and my intense mind build managed to drop us with the same results. While our cure Vs were doing somewhere between1-1.1k.(His was higher then mine)

So still only having a 300 hp difference for something almost twice the mp still pretty meh.

I've always thought they should just give a capped cure V to scholar and rdm. Something that caps around 600 hp before cure potency.

The biggest problem Cure 6 faces right now is in non-Abyssea play. Inside Abyssea, it's fine, it has a purpose, and it's actually usable. Outside, it becomes impractical for several reasons - the MP cost, which is a little bit above what you'd expect from this spell; and the fact that it's almost always an overcure anyway, being the two biggest reasons.



I'm doing 1500~ with it already, I'm fine with this. After capping cure potency, it became a significant enough jump over Cure 5 (which does around 1050~ for me in the same setup) to make it actually distinguishable.



Being able to utilize Cure 5/6 together mostly eliminates the need for this, which would remain one of WHM's biggest advantages if these other jobs were to just get Cure 5 only.

Edited, May 4th 2011 3:02pm by Fynlar

Unless SE adds another +25% in Cure Potency gear for SCH and RDM, you don't have to worry about anything.

I don't think you're getting my point. My point is that there is no sensible reason to prefer using Cure VI over Cure V right now. It's not a spell that other jobs can look up and say "Well WHM's are still better because they get VI". Heck, only reason why it would probably be OK for other jobs to get V is because they can't push V that high.

It gets forgiven inside abyssea, but from an efficiency standpoint it is still better to V first and cover the gaps with other cures. And 1.5k with maximun gear is underwhelming. Maximun gear should be well pushing Cure VI near the 2k range if it had followed the pattern of any other cure.

As for the recast, it's too high. I find myself solo healing a bit too much, and end up alternating V/VI. I always find VI to not be ready for the second round, and end up having to do a IV. So it can't even function for sheer curespam either.

Edited, May 4th 2011 10:38pm by Drakonite

Sorry if I wasn't clear in my opening post. I don't really see how WHM can keep Cure V exclusive, however much I enjoy the popularity of the job right now. I can see WHMs being given higher levels of Tranquil Heart than SCH or RDM. SCH isn't going to come into its own again until it can haste with /RDM really (and I love the job). That isn't until 96 so we're not talking about any time before December. Right now I'd almost say inside Abyssea SMN is a better healer than RDM because of its defensive and curative bloodpacts. Whenever I RDM inside Aby, I want to jump straight back to WHM, the difference is so significant. Outside of Abyssea RDMs versatility makes it more powerful.

If they remove the static ENM cost on Cure V then it becomes a powerful tool for PLDs too. Albeit an expensive one.

I spam IV, V and VI in Abyssea but then I tend towards capping -ENM along with Cure potency (be it with Atma or gear) and I find I use them all constantly. On WHM, 3 simply doesn't cut it anymore and Minnikin+ ?SCH means MP is never a worry. Outside of Abyssea its a different story.

If they give PLD the opposing job trait to Tranquil Heart, give WHMs a higher level of it and open up Cure V to RDM and SCH it will help everyone. Despite me wanting to clutch Cure V to myself and say WHM onry.

Like I said, being terribly inefficient is only forgiven because of abyssea. And even there it can become a problem if you're not sporting full MP atmas and use it as your main cure (Which would never happen with V). I made that mistake once, thinking that I could replace every V with a VI just cuz "MP didn't matter".

Heck, you wouldn't even be seeing 1500ish if not because of the extra 100ish MND attainable in abyssea. Not like an extra 450 is anything impresive, Cure V+IV will still net you more HP with less.

And the recasts are, again, being compared to our previous modus operandi. It just can't function as your main cure if it's only available nearly as often as you can cast haste. Yes, being hasted helps, but catching a slow, forgetting to cast it, or being weak render it nearly uncastable.
Also, being compared to a DNC's cure doesn't help, because we all know that recast are the main reason DNC cures are not that reliable.



Edited, May 5th 2011 5:44am by Drakonite

I miss my Haste setup for Cures too ;; You are right that Walmart head and Blessed Legs have effectively been replaced in Cure setups by AF3 head/legs. For hands though, I idle in Serpentes and Cure/stat-na in Blessed Mitts +1 and Blessed Pumps +1 because I simply don't feel I can keep giving up Haste/Enmity - in sacrifice of higher Cure pot (i.e., if I had both Serpentes pieces on for cures). I find that I have less problems chaincasting Cure V/VI because of the extra Haste.


Edited, May 5th 2011 10:21am by Poltergeist27

Edited, May 5th 2011 10:22am by Poltergeist27

MP/heal efficiency is only one factor of healing (and as we all know, basically a non-factor in Abyssea once properly set up)

HP/time is another efficiency factor that I think a lot of people here are forgetting.



A Cure that high usually isn't even needed anywhere besides Abyssea, anyway.



And it would take more time to do so, too. Positives and negatives.



It *shouldn't* be your main cure anyway. Hell, when we only had Cure 5, that wasn't our main cure either. It should have been mixed up.



It was meant to remind you how good WHMs actually have it and how they really have no room to complain about Cure recasts. Once Cure 6 starts imposing its recast delay on ALL your Cures, then you can start bitching.

As it is, not only does Cure 6 thankfully NOT work that way, we even have numerous viable means to reduce its recast if we don't like where it's at. DNC can get a AMK helm that drops its recasts by 2 seconds, or use its 2hr. They have no other options.

Edited, May 5th 2011 4:54pm by Fynlar

And yet despite that, RDM is still a perfectly capable main healer outside of Abyssea. I realize Abyssea is pretty much the entire game right now, but it hasn't been that way for long and probably won't be for a lot longer. It's just the newest, hottest thing. The huge HP pools in Abyssea are what killed RDM's ability to main heal, nothing else was even a contributing factor.

Also, comparing DNC's healing to WHM's healing is like comparing COR's nuking to BLM's nuking.

Typically, I agree with Fyn about many of the things that he espouses. The same is true of Perg and Eldelphia, and many of the other venerable White Mages who have posted in this thread. However, this time, there are two distinct sides to an argument. I feel that the majority of posters, myself included, agree that Cure VI is extremely underwhelming. Cure V absolutely, unarguably had a place at level 75. Even now, at level 90, Cure VI does not, when you're outside Abyssea.

I understand that the last four words are a critical modifier to that sentence, but they are truth. Cure V had a place in Limbus, Dynamis, Einherjar, experience situations, and virtually any other challenging moment in the game. Cure VI is truly a convenience, and a luxury, that is afforded us only by virtue of the God mode that we turn on every time we get visitant status.

The recast, which is offensively long, absurd MP cost, and general inefficiency actually led me to declare that I would never use it. I'll admit that the declaration was made when I first learned the spell. When Augur's Gloves and an Orison Cap +2 were all that I wanted out of the game. When getting that first Lunar Abyssite changed everything.

Certainly since then, I've cast the spell more times than I can count. I use it liberally, but it's just a means of filling in the gaps between Cure Vs. That's all it is, and I truly think anyone who claims otherwise is stubbornly holding on to some insane concept that bigger, shinier, newer stuff is better.

It's not better. It sucks. There are myriad ways to fix it. Make our Healing Skill actually uh, I don't know, do something? I feel that Elemental Skill suffers almost the same malady. Ninjutsu Skill does something for the damage of a nuke, but the skill associated with the job that is most representative of magical damage does nothing for the actual damage of those spells? Fine, resists, whatever. Argue that side of it all you want; cling to that foolishness, if you choose.

On topic, Tranquil Heart, quite frankly, pisses me off. Give me the option to turn Job Traits on and off, and I'll be just fine with it. I've driven the standard model of White Mage until the bolts are falling out, and this:

Is my problem with it. This is immediately obvious to anyone who has ever enjoyed this aspect of the job, and it's annoying as hell. We're being forced to play the game the way that Square wants us to play it. There's little enough Enmity + gear available to White Mage for tanking to begin with and this drives a pretty big nail into the coffin of the concept.

Unfortunately, the really disgusting part of the whole thing is that it's not just killing a niche and frequently unused subsection of White Mage, it's also giving a giant middle finger to all the Paladins who are skilled and wise enough to recognize when /RDM (and rarely /WHM) would be a superior choice to the standard /NIN or /WAR.

This job trait doesn't so much give me hope tht RDM and SCH will get Cure V, but it gives me hope for PLD. Before update, despite having better curing, PLD wouldn't really want to use Cure V for tanking. If they give PLD a trait that's reverse of this, then maybe PLD can get Cure V but instead add emnity.

Can you show your gear for that? I have capped potency too, and I get lower-600's.

According to Furen's Cure Calculator you shouldn't be able to get 690 from Cure IV until you have like 350 MND...

Or, try putting in:
MND 250
VIT 250
Skill 500
Potency 50

Cure IV = 681

...lol?

Maybe I'm thinking of my Abyssea Cure IV on lightsday then or something (I use light obi on lightsday) and not my outside cure. It was late and I'm sick, my apologies. Mine must be in the low 600's too then outside Abyssea. I haven't been playing much lately so it's kinda looking back rather than recent memories

It is now, but in the past Cure 4 was definitely my "main cure". And no, I'm not just saying that because I was RDM a lot of the time back then.

And I never implied that having a main cure meant not using the others o_O

Sch can't even use roundel

I think he means it's not part of the 50% cure potency cap. Using the belt and twlight cape, you're able to reach more than 50% cure potency since it should act as a multiplier rather than added to your cure potency gear.

Even better on gears is Cura and Esuna with misery. Not enough white mages use that in salvage =(

Cura was sexy in the mire too on spongilla flies. A few other things, too