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#1 Apr 10 2012 at 9:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Silent forum is silent.

So I've rerolled on a new server. I dunno if I'm abandoning my toons on The Constant, but it just got too dead for my liking. Server population is an issue for most, but The Constant is near the bottom of the list, and checking its Imp:Rep ratio put me even more at a disadvantage. I first rerolled on Elysium, but then I found more stats. Now I'm on Jedi Covenant.

Depending on the price, when server xfers (which are apparently coming ASAP) open up, I might bring my Sage over. Or I might just start a new one, considering I don't love his mask. We'll see.

What is everyone else up to?
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#2 Apr 10 2012 at 11:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Just wrapped up the SW class storyline. I have to say, killing Baras was one of the most satisfying things I've ever done in an MMO. I now have a level 50 tank and a melee DPS on the Sith side, so I'm thinking I'm going to roll a healer on the Jedi side and rumble with some buds. I was surprised to see that you can buy your own cross-faction auctions, so that will help with gearing up - at least until BW "fixes" that :)

Looking forward to 1.2 as well. I have a ton of crap that never sold on the AH for the guild bank!
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#3 Apr 10 2012 at 2:07 PM Rating: Good
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I just picked up the game a couple days ago with a friend, and I have to say I am glad I did. We have a Trooper/Smuggler combo we play together and then a character on the side, which in my case is a BH. I love the story Bioware has created and being a Star Wars nerd I love this game even more.

I only have my Trooper to 23 but an observation that I--and my friend--have is I am basically rock. Mortal Volly is basically an I-Win button and Grav round is crazy for burst.
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#4 Apr 10 2012 at 2:08 PM Rating: Excellent
Waiting on 1.2 on Thursday! On the bright side, I'm on a fishing trip all weekend while the rest of ya work out the bugs Smiley: tongue
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#5 Apr 10 2012 at 5:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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I haven't actually been in game for quite a few weeks, should really get those last 6 levels to get my Sage to 50. Unfortunately, FFXI sucked me back in.
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#6 Apr 10 2012 at 5:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Professor stupidmonkey wrote:
I haven't actually been in game for quite a few weeks, should really get those last 6 levels to get my Sage to 50. Unfortunately, FFXI sucked me back in.

And may god have mercy on your soul.
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#7 Apr 11 2012 at 12:22 AM Rating: Good
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I think the pandas may be to blame.

I'd been noticing the quietness too and it is a bit worrying for a game this young.

One reason perhaps is that their is so much help and direction in-game that the "How do I do X" posts never get started. That is no excuse however for the MIA "Weekend Goat" threads and their follow up summaries.

1.2 should stimulate the existing players a lot but I am a tad worried that it is too late for a lot of people. Todays MMO player has the attention span of a moth and has already moved on to the next bright flame in the MMO firmament. 1.2 is such a massive set of changes but it does feel like ""We wanted to launch with this but it escaped early" rather than an inline upgrade or mini expansion.

I would have designed my characters very differently if I had known what I now know about Legacy.

Anyway props for prodding the forum Smiley: smile
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#8 Apr 11 2012 at 4:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Cobra101 wrote:
I think the pandas may be to blame.

I'd been noticing the quietness too and it is a bit worrying for a game this young.

One reason perhaps is that their is so much help and direction in-game that the "How do I do X" posts never get started. That is no excuse however for the MIA "Weekend Goat" threads and their follow up summaries.

1.2 should stimulate the existing players a lot but I am a tad worried that it is too late for a lot of people. Todays MMO player has the attention span of a moth and has already moved on to the next bright flame in the MMO firmament. 1.2 is such a massive set of changes but it does feel like ""We wanted to launch with this but it escaped early" rather than an inline upgrade or mini expansion.

I would have designed my characters very differently if I had known what I now know about Legacy.

Anyway props for prodding the forum Smiley: smile


I sometimes think the same thing. I imagine it would have been a matter of another 3-4 months of beta testing, but I can't say I'm unhappy with how the game launched. A few bugs here and there, but as we all know, one of the smoothest MMO launches to date, if not the smoothest.

Funny thing is, I think people are just too caught up in consuming end-game content to really give anything some amount of time. They think they've "beaten" the game and moved on, yet don't understand it's more about the journey than the end result.
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#9 Apr 11 2012 at 7:06 AM Rating: Good
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I'd agree. The launch was very smooth. They have continuously addressed issues and kept adding things. Endgame was always going to be a matter of new instances added later. 1.2 also addresses a lot of balance issues and feedback which is absolutely as it should be.

The big giveaway to me is Legacy. The video goes on about how important the concept is to the game and how they have further development plans for it. If that is all true I have difficulty believing that they really wanted to launch it 4 months into the life of the product.

Personally I've already filled all the slots on two legacies. To experiment with Chiss Snugglers or Miralukan Sith I will have to start on a third server. Fortunately I'm not sure I see the point and most of the other stuff is applicable to existing characters. Oh well come Thursday - or more probably Friday after hotfoxes - we will get to find out.
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#10 Apr 11 2012 at 7:09 AM Rating: Good
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I'm not worried. I'm betting they'll start merging servers that need it in a few months. Most servers have 600 people or so on at a time. The problem is that they are splitting up between planets. Yeah, you log on the fleet and only see 30 people. But how many are on Ilum? Belsavis? Corellia? In Warzones? In Flashpoints? How many people are leveling alts in lower zones?

They probably did open too many servers (since they opened them with the intention of alleviating launch stress). But I'm not convinced it's so bad. What we need is an easier way to organize, like a galaxy-wide LFG channel.
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#11 Apr 11 2012 at 10:27 AM Rating: Good
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I've actually been back playing Skyrim. Don't know why but it really sucked me in this second time around. I've gotten so engrossed in the side quests, and in trying out different builds (requiring re-rolls each time) that I haven't yet finished the main story quest line despite having one character at 40, one at 30, and a couple of others somewhere between 10 and 20. And I only just discovered mods!

I do think I'll be playing more SWtoR again though, as it seems the guild has recruited a few dedicated raiders. I'm hoping that either they will be the catalyst to get this guild raiding seriously or, if not, I can hop with them to whatever guild they jump to. Unfortunately, my SWtoR guild is a playground for a serious WoW raiding guild, and these guys only jump into SWtoR when they are bored with WoW it seems.
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#12 Apr 11 2012 at 11:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Been playing somewhat frequently. My Lv.50 Powertech is at Valor 64.25, and I was considering trying to grind to 65 today so I can buy that mount before it's gone, but I don't know if I really feel like it. It's really only a mount that I'd use like 3 years down the line when people don't know what it's from. Smiley: lol

So, I've been mostly playing my Lv. 43 Assassin. I primarily run Warzones, and then do the planet storyline and class storyline quests on each planet, skipping the majority of the side quests. Works out fairly well, since I really just enjoy the PvP. I deleted my Lv. 40 Juggernaut because I wanted to remake her as a Marauder of a different race with the same name, but I realized Rattataki can't be Warriors. So, I'm placeholding the name until I can unlock the race. Of course, that either means leveling an Agent (probably a Sniper, since I am overloaded with melee DPS) or farming credits. Guess I'll be spending some quality time inside Boarding Party. Smiley: lol
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#13 Apr 11 2012 at 2:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've heard an estimation of 1.5M credits per race, which is 15 days of space dailies.
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#14 Apr 11 2012 at 4:12 PM Rating: Good
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Funny thing is, I think people are just too caught up in consuming end-game content to really give anything some amount of time. They think they've "beaten" the game and moved on, yet don't understand it's more about the journey than the end result.


What is for some, may not be for others. For some there simply is no enjoyment in the journey and they only have fun working in large teams to tackle the hardest content.

1.2 Is going to bring back a fair bit of players. I'm actually willing to bet a few servers will have queue times again, but the bulk of them I doubt will return. I personally know five people I can't convince to return. I guess people are just looking for something new or different to keep their attention.
#15 Apr 11 2012 at 5:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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snieh wrote:
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Funny thing is, I think people are just too caught up in consuming end-game content to really give anything some amount of time. They think they've "beaten" the game and moved on, yet don't understand it's more about the journey than the end result.


What is for some, may not be for others. For some there simply is no enjoyment in the journey and they only have fun working in large teams to tackle the hardest content.

1.2 Is going to bring back a fair bit of players. I'm actually willing to bet a few servers will have queue times again, but the bulk of them I doubt will return. I personally know five people I can't convince to return. I guess people are just looking for something new or different to keep their attention.
There was a pretty good post on Reddit about players leaving these newer games:
Quote:
Ye this post is about World of Warcraft, the big boy of MMOs who we just cant get rid of. Anyway Im not writing this to flame WOW players or be irrelevant to SWTOR.

WOW Syndrome has had a profound effect on pretty much any good MMOS ability to stay active for the past few years and its beginning to annoy me.

What is WOW Syndrome I hear you ask in my head?

MMO gamers are by nature mostly monogamous, they may play other games but will always to return to their original favourite. Nowhere is this more prominent then in WoW players, I call it WoW Syndrome and ive silently observed it for over 6 years of MMO gaming.

The reason Im writing about this in a SWTOR subreddit is because it is my strong belief that 90% of all these people giving reason after reason for un-subbing are just WoW syndrome sufferers. I say strong belief... Im 100% sure thats the case, ive witnessed this happen in many games (Age of Conan being the most obvious example).

A game launches with the so called "WoW killer" title, the game has heavy population for the first month or so then WoW Syndrome sets in and the complaints start flying. Im not saying that there were no complaints the first month but they weren't followed by Unsubscribe threats as they all are now.

Case in Point with Age of Conan:

1. Game launches to huge subscription base.
2. A month passes with very little change to population
3. WoW syndrome sets in, the complaints start flying about everything remotely wrong with the game.
4. Players start leaving, their excuses? small bugs, gameplay flaws etc..
5. Server Populations begin to drop
6. Second Wave of Wow syndrome sets in.
7. Server Populations drop further, their excuses? Low populations, cba to reroll etc...
8. Game declared dead by most WoW players.

Age of Conan isnt dead, and by no surprise the majority of people currently playing didn't come from WoW.

We are now seeing similar patterns in SWTOR, but because SWTOR is a stronger game its not happening as quickly. So with that in mind I have some advice for all you WOW players out there who are threatening to unsubscribe or have already done so.

Stop blaming game-play, game mechanics, server population, or god knows what else. All of your reasons are just you trying to convince yourself that you need to go back to WoW. All your doing by complaining is giving other WoW Syndromers justification to complain more. Its only natural you want to return to a game were you are more comfortable, just be honest about it.

Please stop spamming the forums and reddit with reasons why the game isnt good enough for you. Noone cares..

Plain and simple fact: WoW got here first, other games have to struggle to keep up and the main reason is WoW Syndrome. Please just go back to your MMO and stop acting like its anyone else's fault but your own. In a couple months time when you've gotten tired again well be here waiting.

Anyway Id write more but I Feel that this will be downvoted to hell anyway. Please leave comments below, if your going to say something short like "this is bullsh*t" or "I agree", dont bother.

For any mature people our there who want to discuss this it would be nice for WOW players to tag themselves somehow.

EDIT:

So many People here are just replying with the same things. To all those people who Im going to stop commenting to individually please read this:

1. I am not saying everyone who quits, quits because of WoW syndrome.
2. I am not saying everyone who has ever played WoW has WoW Syndrome.
3. I am not saying that the game has no issues.

Read this: "Most WoW players subconsciously want to return to WoW, they will seek any justification as a means to justify their unsubscribing. This has a overly negative effect on the community where smaller issues are blown out of proportion and players rant about absolutely anything to convince themselves they are justified."

Right.. that is my point.

Please will everyone stop commenting saying why they are not quitting because of this and that, why the game does need help.


I don't agree with everything in it, but I do agree with a lot of it. I know from my personal experience that playing free trials of other games, I was chasing the experience I had in FFXI. I played WoW for a year, and I doubt I'll ever go back to it, but FFXI was my first MMO, and it's always in the back of my mind; it's still the ruler by which I measure my experience in other MMOs.
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#16 Apr 11 2012 at 5:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, I still have super hardcore nostalgia for FFXI. Everytime I think about going back to it, I want to. Then I have to forcefully tell myself it's a mistake.

I used to have those issues with WoW. I occasionally want to go back. Then I remember what they've done to it, and I just don't want to anymore.

Also miss Diablo II: LoD, for that matter.
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#17 Apr 11 2012 at 10:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Good find Spoonless. I think that goes a long way to explaining a lot of this.
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#18 Apr 12 2012 at 2:25 AM Rating: Good
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I think the effect is actually different and a lot more insidious and harder to counter.

WoW was the first really casual friendly MMO. It was incredibly easy after something like EQ - or from what I've heard FFXI. You could log in and play. You didn't need to spend hours at a time, you didn't have to have a group, and the pace and levelling was dramatically faster.

It sucked in a lot of people who would never have lasted in the older games and it created a sort of "sugar high". Now anything without the same "fix" leaves people unsatisfied. The trouble is that even the original no longer satisfies them.

The devs have allowed the rate of progression to massively outpace the rate at which they can develop, even for casual players. This creates a hunger for the rapid development while also creating the disatisfaction. Give the current generation of MMO players a hard mode MMO and they won't enjoy it and will leave, give them an easy one and they will blitz it and moan about lack of content.

WoW has created an environment where it is incredibly hard for any MMO - including WoW - to satisfy the subscriber base.

Maybe we have to consider the sub rates of WoW as a blip on the MMO timeline and that a 1M sub base is really as much as any new MMO should ever aim for. Those non-MMO accultured players who were dragged in will drop away and go back to wherever they came from. For them to migrate constantly from new MMO to new MMO will doom the entire genre as a trail of failed games will blight investment.
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#19 Apr 12 2012 at 6:09 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah, I still have super hardcore nostalgia for FFXI. Everytime I think about going back to it, I want to. Then I have to forcefully tell myself it's a mistake.

I used to have those issues with WoW. I occasionally want to go back. Then I remember what they've done to it, and I just don't want to anymore.

Also miss Diablo II: LoD, for that matter.


The thing about the human mind is it has a tendency to remember only the good things about experiences. It's mostly due to the mind, as it gets older, requires something to hold on to. Like why the elderly prattle on about how good the old days were. It's a necessary evolutionary requirement we have. Next time you think of FFXI remember WHY you left it to begin with. I often have to do this with the thoughts of things I wish I could have again. Which can be difficult cause the bad always seems just out of my reach.

Resources:

Why Nostalgia Is Important
#20 Apr 12 2012 at 6:34 AM Rating: Good
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Very interesting, thanks for that.

And The Darkness certainly made me nostalgic, lol.
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#21 Apr 12 2012 at 11:18 AM Rating: Good
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cynyck wrote:
I do think I'll be playing more SWtoR again though, as it seems the guild has recruited a few dedicated raiders. I'm hoping that either they will be the catalyst to get this guild raiding seriously or, if not, I can hop with them to whatever guild they jump to. Unfortunately, my SWtoR guild is a playground for a serious WoW raiding guild, and these guys only jump into SWtoR when they are bored with WoW it seems.
Replying to my own post, out of frustration.

Logged on last night, which was supposed to be a raid night, to see the MoD saying "tonight will not be an official raid night as I cannot be online, feel free to put something together on your own." I was the only one online and after 45 minutes of running dailies I checked the offline members and found that those "few dedicated raiders" were no longer members. I guess they saw that there was absolutely no interest in raiding.

I was too frustrated at that point to do anything but log out. Tonight I'm logging in to g-quit. I think I'll be better off without a guild tag at all at this point.
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#22 Apr 12 2012 at 11:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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That sucks. I'm almost embarrassed to admit it, but I haven't run a FP since like level 45, and have never done an Ops run. I'd like to get into them. I'm sure the endless PvP will get old at some point.
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#23 Apr 12 2012 at 11:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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I look at the whole WoW thing like this:

For some folks, WoW is the girlfriend you've had for 7 years. She's been good to you, reliable, and by now she knows what buttons to push to get the fire started, if you catch my drift. She puts up with your crap and is ready to make a commitment.

SWTOR/other MMO is the hot blonde you meet and start an affair with. Things are great in the beginning, but then you expect things from her that your girlfriend does after 7 years, and she's just not at that place in life yet. So you find yourself heading back to the girlfriend because she's already at that point - even if you need a little new content every once in a while to keep things interesting.

Note: I'm happily married and do not support straying from your significant other. In this case, I just think the analogy fits :)
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#24 Apr 12 2012 at 12:24 PM Rating: Good
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I generally have little interest in raiding. Not because I'm not interested in the content--I am--but because I'm never really willing to commit 2-3 days a week to it.
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#25 Apr 12 2012 at 1:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think that SWTOR botched things when they increased the number of servers rather than server capacity. Anyone who played during the prerelease stress tests knows that they could have increased capacity across the board to cover many of the initial subscribers. You really have to gameplan for that initial spike followed by a drop. Empty servers are the bane of a MMO's existence.
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#26 Apr 12 2012 at 5:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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I leveled a tank to 50 on a dead server, 50 people at the fleet at one time was busy. That is just not enough to sustain a healthy end game pve experience.


My Merc is now 44, on a slightly more populated server where its safe to say that there are 120-160 people on fleet and there are always flashpoints being run. I still think having a hard split between the player base via factions is a stupid idea. Halving the population you can actively play with on a server when it is supposed to be an MMO strikes me as dumb and a really 2004 idea.
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#27 Apr 12 2012 at 5:19 PM Rating: Good
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Unfortunately, my friends happened to pick a dead server (how dead? I've been playing since mid-February and only been ganked once!), which means I'm stuck on a dead server unless they all decide to move en masse ><

It's just a little bit frustrating, as I have a total of about 130 levels across four characters, and have done a grand total of three flashpoints.

EDIT: Little maths fail there :p fixed now

Edited, Apr 12th 2012 7:32pm by RajiFarlander
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#28 Apr 12 2012 at 6:46 PM Rating: Good
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BioWare said server transfers will be available as soon as possible (exact wording was something like "I go into their office every day and ask if they can get it out sooner"). I'm guessing they're going to release that, wait a month or three for the populations to stabilize further, then start merging servers.

Especially because, at that point, xfers will have introduced all of the mechanics they'll need for a merge (transferring legacy, name, perks, etc).

I'd guess the first server merges will be in 4-6 months.
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