In regards of certain complaints about a lack of substantial penalty upon KO, here is my input:
First of, in the current state of no exp loss, adventurers are careless and sloppy. It doesn't matter if one dies 10 times on the same mob. I think that the solution is to increase gear damage upon being KOed, to a point that it deters adventurers from constantly respawning, running into battle to get a few hits, dying, repeat. When I am soloing something like an IT devilette on a leve, I guage myself for three encounters if i need to: 1st, main battle to reduce most of enemy's hp; 2nd, remove final 10-20% of enemy when weak; and 3rd, the killing blow when double weak. It works for me, but I also feel I am exploiting the system. I know that if I lost like 20% gear durability upon each KO, I would be a much more prudent adventurer. Furthermore, those high level fights would seem much more epic because then it 'does' matter if you KO. To balance this out, SE would have to greatly reduce the regualar wear on gear. Also, don't do something stupid like add that penalty to weapons - that doesn't make sense.
I would like to see the rules change for high level characters as well. How about loss of SP beyond r50? This way, the casual lower level adventurer is not afflicted with harsh elitist penalties, but at the same time will require those hardcore top level endgame adventurers to be elite. Right now without strict penalties, the general adventurer is just sloppy.
Edited, Jan 26th 2011 7:51am by WolfOak
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- Death penalty - pre/post 50
Death penalty - pre/post 50Follow
5 deaths for needing total repairs is excessive. Even WoW had it at least 10 (And EQ2 also).
I'm ok with there being some repairs or death penalty but repairs are a major pain, and after all games are meant to be fun and enjoyable. Challenging at times, but the harder you make it the more you close the game off.
You can make a great game, and make it too hard or difficult, and only a few people will play it.
Look at Demon's Souls on PS3, amazing game, incredible graphics, few people could get past the first (non-tutorial) boss.
Also in a game where you can only get about 10,000 SP per hour, an exp penalty of 10% is losing an hours worth of work (even if its 8% like in 11, 8000 SP lost at 50 would be losing an hour of work nearly).
Wolf Oak your not 50 yet so you may not have realized but you don't gain SP at 50. Your EXP is stuck at 0/110,000. Adding a punishment that only affects 50s would further discourage people from needing 50. I mean you can do all content in this game at 45, and a 49 is just as good as a 50, so 50 needs to be a sigh of relief. The end of a long road, and the anticipation of what's to come. Not a nightmare.
(and the beginning of new challenges, like NMs)
Edited, Jan 26th 2011 12:08am by Eadieni
I'm ok with there being some repairs or death penalty but repairs are a major pain, and after all games are meant to be fun and enjoyable. Challenging at times, but the harder you make it the more you close the game off.
You can make a great game, and make it too hard or difficult, and only a few people will play it.
Look at Demon's Souls on PS3, amazing game, incredible graphics, few people could get past the first (non-tutorial) boss.
Also in a game where you can only get about 10,000 SP per hour, an exp penalty of 10% is losing an hours worth of work (even if its 8% like in 11, 8000 SP lost at 50 would be losing an hour of work nearly).
Wolf Oak your not 50 yet so you may not have realized but you don't gain SP at 50. Your EXP is stuck at 0/110,000. Adding a punishment that only affects 50s would further discourage people from needing 50. I mean you can do all content in this game at 45, and a 49 is just as good as a 50, so 50 needs to be a sigh of relief. The end of a long road, and the anticipation of what's to come. Not a nightmare.
(and the beginning of new challenges, like NMs)
Edited, Jan 26th 2011 12:08am by Eadieni
http://www.prismaticllama.com/
http://www.sologensystems.com
The Prismatic Llama - Peru's llamas got nothing on us.
Re: death penalty.
Dear WolfOak,
No.
Yours,
Kachi
Dear WolfOak,
No.
Yours,
Kachi
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...
Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.
Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
I was referring more rank51+ I guess, when they inevitably will be increasing rank caps and adjust the leveling curve 20+ - not intended for current r50 players. This also introduces the possiblity of quest/items to reduce penalies (moghancement experience) and would give more definition to jobs that can raise (White Mage) I've never played WOW so I can't comment on that, but a party wipe in XI was devistating - people just don't care now. But no, I am not r50 yet, so maybe its possible my opinion will change.
If they completey removed normal gear damage and ONLY had it for when you died, I could agree to that kind of a system. As you said, it would discourage sloppy play and encourage players not to die. Either that or make it something more like 5% damage per death and VERY minor damage from normal battles. Like, without deaths you could go a good 5-6 hours of straight SP without needing repairs. That would be great.
BartelX wrote:
If they completey removed normal gear damage and ONLY had it for when you died, I could agree to that kind of a system. As you said, it would discourage sloppy play and encourage players not to die. Either that or make it something more like 5% damage per death and VERY minor damage from normal battles. Like, without deaths you could go a good 5-6 hours of straight SP without needing repairs. That would be great.
I agree with that. The repais system is kind of a pain at the moment so making it even worse by losing 20% per deaths pushes too much and in the end, I guess people would just go with 0% dura gears so as not to have to repair even more often.
yfaithfully wrote:
To add to those, if you can get this DeLorean up to 88 MPH, you'll be able to play this game in 2019 when they've finally implemented mounts.
Well I've found my armor generally lasts me until I'm nearing total fatigue (0 sp per kill) if using level-appropriate armor, so Armor decays at an ok pace.
Weapons however, decay before getting half a level. They just need to adjust weapons to be on par with armor decay and I'd be happy with that.
Didn't the devs already say you lose durability on death, but it's a minor amount? I really wouldn't want both systems of Death and Playing the game giving large durability loss, hate to say it but WoW has a decent balance of both. However, games like WoW and Everquest 2 also have NPCs that can repair all your gear -ALL- your gear, cheaply, and even NPCs that can be summoned to do that.
Even DDO had a decent balance, with NPCs that could be summoned to repair gear.
Giving item durability of like 5% on death is hard to keep the game fun when NPCs charge about 400k for repairs to 75%. Sure you can get players to repair it to 100%, but isn't that just another time sink? Not playing the game but searching for repairs... I like players being able to repair gear on the field, after a long leve session or something, but I think before you increase the rate items break, you need to decrease repair costs, and let NPCs repair to 100%.
Weapons however, decay before getting half a level. They just need to adjust weapons to be on par with armor decay and I'd be happy with that.
Didn't the devs already say you lose durability on death, but it's a minor amount? I really wouldn't want both systems of Death and Playing the game giving large durability loss, hate to say it but WoW has a decent balance of both. However, games like WoW and Everquest 2 also have NPCs that can repair all your gear -ALL- your gear, cheaply, and even NPCs that can be summoned to do that.
Even DDO had a decent balance, with NPCs that could be summoned to repair gear.
Giving item durability of like 5% on death is hard to keep the game fun when NPCs charge about 400k for repairs to 75%. Sure you can get players to repair it to 100%, but isn't that just another time sink? Not playing the game but searching for repairs... I like players being able to repair gear on the field, after a long leve session or something, but I think before you increase the rate items break, you need to decrease repair costs, and let NPCs repair to 100%.
http://www.prismaticllama.com/
http://www.sologensystems.com
The Prismatic Llama - Peru's llamas got nothing on us.
Eadieni wrote:
Well I've found my armor generally lasts me until I'm nearing total fatigue (0 sp per kill) if using level-appropriate armor, so Armor decays at an ok pace.
Weapons however, decay before getting half a level. They just need to adjust weapons to be on par with armor decay and I'd be happy with that.
Didn't the devs already say you lose durability on death, but it's a minor amount? I really wouldn't want both systems of Death and Playing the game giving large durability loss, hate to say it but WoW has a decent balance of both. However, games like WoW and Everquest 2 also have NPCs that can repair all your gear -ALL- your gear, cheaply, and even NPCs that can be summoned to do that.
Even DDO had a decent balance, with NPCs that could be summoned to repair gear.
Giving item durability of like 5% on death is hard to keep the game fun when NPCs charge about 400k for repairs to 75%. Sure you can get players to repair it to 100%, but isn't that just another time sink? Not playing the game but searching for repairs... I like players being able to repair gear on the field, after a long leve session or something, but I think before you increase the rate items break, you need to decrease repair costs, and let NPCs repair to 100%.
Weapons however, decay before getting half a level. They just need to adjust weapons to be on par with armor decay and I'd be happy with that.
Didn't the devs already say you lose durability on death, but it's a minor amount? I really wouldn't want both systems of Death and Playing the game giving large durability loss, hate to say it but WoW has a decent balance of both. However, games like WoW and Everquest 2 also have NPCs that can repair all your gear -ALL- your gear, cheaply, and even NPCs that can be summoned to do that.
Even DDO had a decent balance, with NPCs that could be summoned to repair gear.
Giving item durability of like 5% on death is hard to keep the game fun when NPCs charge about 400k for repairs to 75%. Sure you can get players to repair it to 100%, but isn't that just another time sink? Not playing the game but searching for repairs... I like players being able to repair gear on the field, after a long leve session or something, but I think before you increase the rate items break, you need to decrease repair costs, and let NPCs repair to 100%.
I totally agree with you!
yfaithfully wrote:
To add to those, if you can get this DeLorean up to 88 MPH, you'll be able to play this game in 2019 when they've finally implemented mounts.
24 posts
Im with you Wolf, i cant really understand how ppl like to play without a sort of DP.
This game is so friendly on this point.
Ok maybe FFXI was to harsh, but we need something that makes the game more wild and vibrating.
Fighting, exploring , walk around in high lv zones, is nothing more then "ouch that one is red!!! aahh np i have the hp set around the corner".
Even WOW have a DP... comeone SE... WOW!?!?!
Its not easy to get sleepy when you fight in an MMO since other ppl depends on what you are doing.... but FFXIV has that ability.
Hope is the last to die....
ps. i know my english sucks
This game is so friendly on this point.
Ok maybe FFXI was to harsh, but we need something that makes the game more wild and vibrating.
Fighting, exploring , walk around in high lv zones, is nothing more then "ouch that one is red!!! aahh np i have the hp set around the corner".
Even WOW have a DP... comeone SE... WOW!?!?!
Its not easy to get sleepy when you fight in an MMO since other ppl depends on what you are doing.... but FFXIV has that ability.
Hope is the last to die....
ps. i know my english sucks
1 post
Death Penalty is one of the few changes that could drastically change the way we live this game adding thrills and tension.
As many said before me no DP means sloppy party playing and careless wandering: as of now it's just a way for free teleporting and too often a winning tactics for killing mobs that you should not be able to kill.
I did not think of a way to implement this and I also agree that SE went a bit too hard on DP in FFXI, but death sucks and this should always reflect somehow in game mechanism.
For many players not caring about death leads to not caring about playing properly lowering the quality at which this game is played.
As many said before me no DP means sloppy party playing and careless wandering: as of now it's just a way for free teleporting and too often a winning tactics for killing mobs that you should not be able to kill.
I did not think of a way to implement this and I also agree that SE went a bit too hard on DP in FFXI, but death sucks and this should always reflect somehow in game mechanism.
For many players not caring about death leads to not caring about playing properly lowering the quality at which this game is played.
I think that they plan on having a death penalty, hence why when you return it says 0 out of x anima used to return you to y. If they made it cost anima to return and if you were out of anima then you went back to your home city I think that would be a wise move. People would start being more strategic and cautious. Not to mention it adds to one of the things this game needs the most, a challenge.
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