Relic Weapon Revival (06/06/2012)Follow

I agree. They should make it easy to get all of them so everyone has them all. It's enough that the game has a low enough skill curve that it's almost impossible to tell people apart. We should all look the same as well. I endorse this thread.

Who said you have to get all the relic weapons for every job?
Is this some kind of Pokemon challenge?

The primal weapons were BS because they provided you with random
stuff you couldn`t even use for your chosen profession in 6/7 cases.
Which meant that, if you were unlucky, you would not get your spear
after 200 runs even if you participated as a LNC in every single one
of them.

I actually think SE did something right this time. Make getting the
weapons pretty hard, but possible, and, hopefully later on, through
participation in more than the ever-same hamlet runs. Make it a
nightmare to collect them all; obsessive-compulsive hardcore
completionists have to feel the pain to feel special.

In my opinion, it shouldn`t be (humanly) possible to collect all the
artifact weapons for all classes and all jobs anyway. Let those who
call themselves "hardcore" try and waste their lives on it. Good riddance.

As long as I can be just as good a MNK after 1/7th of their invested time,
I am a happy monk. It`s a good idea: both hardcore and casuals are, after
a reasonable amount of investment, not too far apart in terms of job specific
power; and the former can still feel LEET if they succeed in the impossible.
Or grow up and settle for a role or two they actually want to play

Edited, Jun 6th 2012 8:37am by Rinsui

Sorry Eli, I forgot the sarcasm font. The only thing I really meant in that post was the part about the low skill curve ; ;

I do endorse the thread though because I'm interested to see what people have to say about it.


Edited, Jun 6th 2012 9:36am by FilthMcNasty

@Elionora

Okok. We can discuss about the part of crappy random drop rates. I agree with you there,
and sincerely hope that Hamlet grinds (right after the Ifrit, Moogle, Garuda, Cutterscry grinds)
will not be the only way to obtain what you want. For "supermystic relic weapons", defending
a pile of shacks actually sounds a little... underwhelming anyway.

The two points I was trying to make were that
1.) This time it`s a clear target you can work for. No more random drops you cannot use.
2.) This event provides dedicated players with a long-term goal, and hardcore nerds with
an opportunity to waste their lifetime on. So they never get a girlfriend. They shouldn`t
reproduce anyway. The beauty of this system is that a dedicated but not insane player
will still be just as strong as a nerd in his/her chosen role after investing just 1/7 th of the
time in comparison to, let`s say the Ifrit weapons. Which is a little contradictory, since
Garuda already had the same sort of point system.

I think SE is trying out what`s working out as the "gold standard" at the moment. Like: what
does the community accept, what does it hate etc. Pretty smart to do that before launching 2.0.
That`s the most likely reason for why there`s a different loot system in place for every boss /
dungeon encounter since 1.19 (speedruns, chests, personalized random drops, seals, tokens).

Thank you for being civile enough not to resort to counter-insults after my rather rough post.

Edited, Jun 6th 2012 9:43am by Rinsui

@Rinsui :)

Never have a problem with most people unless they insult me personally ^^; Though I may have transgressed in other posts before lol.

I agree it's good to have long term content; but it appears this might be a bit too much. Now; personally if I only have to get this soiled note once than fine; I'm okay with it. Grinding 25k GC seals takes about 25-30 hours than I can do the quest line for the weapon; that's ok :)

30-40 hours to get 1 AF = Long enough? But to take 1-2 weeks if not longer to get 9 rare drops / weapon; idk. We shall see after update :)

I take my time and have fun :) I got more before until Totorak cooldown was added :D

I won't comment on the drop rate, because intended level for Hamlet Defense is up to 5 (level largely affect the drop rate) and they purposely limit it to 2 in current patch for an obvious reason (they don't want you to get everything ready when its out, for better or worse). I'm more disappointed it takes that long for the AF Weapons to be out (1.22c).

Also you don't need to be top 20 to get the drop.

Edited, Jun 6th 2012 10:19am by Khornette

They're relic weapons for a reason? If you're not as hardcore, you can get materia-melded weapons and be as competent.

You need the 25,000 key item for every weapon you start. These are relic's, they will take time to complete, you will probably not do a second one, unless you want to .. From what is know this will be a LS effort, So far we only know 2 steps.
Step 1: 25,000 GP points
Step 2: 3 seals for each hamlet
[speculation]
Step #: Drop from the beast man leaders
Step #: Trade one of each primal weapon
Step #: Drop from CC & AV final boss
Step #: use you imagination... this will not be something you get over night....

PS: i did Dyna.. for 4 years... So 4 people could get a relic...

Edited, Jun 6th 2012 10:53am by TwiddleDee

Sadly, it took me years to obtain the currency I needed to finish my relic in XI, but it was something I did on and off. It was 6 hours a week I "dedicated" to getting something that was worthwhile and this left me plenty of time to make girls cry... er, I mean kiss them. Dyna was a boring grind I didn't much enjoy outside of the epic Xarc soundtrack to be honest.

I'm not suggesting that SE cater the game to one specific type of player, but nearly any player would agree regardless of their playtime that rewards are usually distributed according to the difficulty of the task set forth. Unfortunately in the case of XI, difficulty was usually defined in terms of time to completion. In any argument about the difficulty of XI vs any other game, XI players always pointed out the amount of time invested to be rewarded. I personally didn't agree with or like the idea, but that is the route SE chose.

If you have any adaptation of the current model I'm all ears, but I'm pretty sure SE likes the combination of lockouts, extremely rare drops and repetitive content grinding.



Easier(and less time consuming) these days to farm up the gil to buy the items.

Then it's clearly not designed for you, simple logic, take it or leave it.

I personally think the ultimate weapon or gear set should have certain requirements to obtain. It has to be extremely rare, something 1-10% of your playerbase may have.

1. Long term goal- I know that some people feel that time consuming isn't fair. But this helps keep it rare. The longer the item takes to aquire, the longer the item retains rarity.

2. Extremely difficult stages- Difficult encounters at certain intervals for unlocking it. This is needed to keep the content rewarding you for skill and not only time freedom. While practice can make you better. Time doesn't always guarantee you will master something. This concept is true in rl and should apply to this content.

3. Require large groups- If you can solo it, the rarity will drop. If the content has a good amount of number 2 above. Finding a pick up group to excel continuously will be difficult. This encourages players to join a static and work as a cohesive unit. Rarity increases.

4. Game currency requirement- This shouldn't allow you to buy the ultimate weapon with gil alone. But it should factor somewhat into it. It just helps increase the rarity a bit.

All that being said, I think only 5-10% of this content should exist in the game. It is not wise to develop a game centralised around content rewards, 90% of your playerbase will ever see. Rarity of that magnitude is for that tiny percent that wishes to put in the work required to be a snowflake. I won't touch this type of content with a ten foot pole. But that option should exist. Just give the remaining playerbase difficult content that doesn't require peeing into bottles or living at our pcs. And make that second to third tier gear a cut above easier rewards and a shade below the ultimate set.

I am looking forward to working on my relic weapon(s)! As long as the stats on it are clearly above and beyond anything you can obtain any other way I will be happy ^^

^^ I personally have no problem with such items existing, but they cannot be the be all end all of items Period! Repeating a task a million times does not make you a skilled player, it just does not work that way, i know many FFXI vets think they where really skilled back in 03 because they had no life and could just camp and out bot other LS for items, but there is really no skill whatsoever involved in waiting 50 hours for a spawn with 600 bots to get a claim..... Nor is there any skilled involved in clearing 500 times the same content over and over and over and Over! Obviously if you cleared it 3 times in a row, the content is below your skill level :/

Now if this items where to drop from a Boss! A boss that requires you to do a quest chain to pop, and sure the quest chain can be none casual friendly, but dont make it "Farm 50 million seals, then get every single wepon dropped from primals, then have your toon logged in for 56 hrs straight to pop said boss" Have the boss itself be CHALLENGING!!

We all win :) The hardcore crowd gets a really tough boss fight that involves some fetching and grinding, and the normal regular people get something they can work towards, and the only thing stopping them is if they can get good enough to beat said boss, not just "Drop life if you want this item"

Explain to me why there "needs" to be "rarity" of items in an MMO?



Real Life concepts need to apply in a "Fantasy World"?



Already asked my question on "rarity" above



So you don't want to have the best stuff the game you pay for offers? Not attacking you, just questioning.

Yeah, I know that, but using time-locked content is seen as evil and a time sink meant to get more money from the poor players, it would be deemd "so 2000" and SE would be told to stop living in last century and get on with the newest trend as seen in GW2/TERA/etc..

Nevermind the fact even WoW has time lock on raids/heroic instances, and that spam-speed running instaces for loot is true even in story driven MMOs like SWTOR.

Bah, I'm happy to see relic weapons, but as a casually-solo/duo oriented player, I look at them, and I instantly know I'll never get one - no need to even get my hopes up about it. Just like all the top-tier raid drop in other games. I just don't care to play with a bunch of strangers for a random chance at an item that will make me stronger at beating the content... that I just beat to get the item.

It's a compulsion loop that just doesn't affect me. I guess some people get hooked and go for it, and others but can't put the time to get it, so they get frustrated about it.

^^^ There is Monumental difference between mentioned MMO'S and FFXIV, in said mmo's the best pieces of equipment are dropped by content that is allowed to be obtained by a players skill level, not amount of time spent online.

Why should the best equipment be dropped to the players who spend most time online not the most skilled ones ? There is no skill in farming or grinding that is a Fact.

Cough cough...
Perhaps this wouldn't be such a contoversial issue if FF wasn't so much based on stats, rather than skill.
I am not sure why anyone could rate down Ostia for what he/she said this time. I mean, he/she may not
always post stuff everybody can agree on, but what's possibly wrong about not wanting to run the same
speedrun 500 times in a row? I mean, how sick can you become?

He/she also is on spot with the comment about difficulty. It's not an achievement when you manage to
hit a blackboard with a hammer 500 times in a row @ age 30. That just shows you prefer content that
is challenging for a toddler. Doing the same easy thing over and over doesn't suddenly make it "hard",
and it definitely doesn't make you "elite". It makes you waste a lot of your youth on a task that should
already be way below your intellectual level.

At least it doesn't take months to get one, and then lose it permanently when you die (in it), like EVE.

Figure I should throw it here

http://www.mooglebox.com/122/index.php

Scroll down, there are Grand Company Lieutenant Equipment, including Weapons (coming 1.22c). If you don't want grindy grind AF, there's your alternative and they do look sexy.

Updated op with post from lodestone:

So far this is it:



In case none of you know; the Mailbreaker as an example requires hq peices to make the NQ version. The HQ peices use some mats that are ingame as NQ only and cost 100k each from npc, you can't farm them.

RNG for HQ blade item @ 100k a pop. Than you have to hope-to-hell you get +1 sword. Than you have to double meld that sh*t with two tier IV materia which is ~5% success to begin with.

And the quest system isn't done yet, no one knows the finish line....

I'll say it again /bendsover. SE can kiss my ass >.> This isn't "challenging". It's not "skill" based. It's purely RNG if you succeed or not on melding/getting that +1 from NQ mats.

Also please note that the materia now is going for 1-3mil a pop.

Edited, Jun 7th 2012 6:57am by Elionara

Well hoorah if you don't need +1 but you still need to +1 the base weapon part using nq mats. As an armor I've attempted nearly 1000 double melds of tier iv's and while it says you have a 17-20% change in the window it isn't that high. I'm also saying 4mil a weapon because on Excalibur the materia alone is around 3mil.

As it stands i have 16mil there just may be a chance even if I buy the mailbreaker for PLD from the wards that the double melding of it will cost me all of that 16mil. This whole relic system is not about skill or being challenged. It's about timesinking and gilsinking.

Edited, Jun 7th 2012 7:36am by Elionara

I have a mailbreaker, it cost me 2 million gil. I've been using it for the lolz when I don't need to play PLD seriously.

Don't make a big drama out of nothing -- the "HQ weapons" are somewhat expensive, but they're not 16 millions. The price can spike up because of the quest, but it won't stay there -- patience is a virtue and all that.

I gotta say I love it.

Then again, I don't see a difference between spending 3 months trying to figure out how to defeat a mob (fighting it over and over again) and fighting a mob over and over again and winning. Other than one is depressing and costs more in gear repair, and the other is tedious, and results in less caring about the victory, cause you have already done it 200 times before.

Oh, I suppose the mob you have to spend 3 months to defeat is the mob less people are likely to beat, and then you are more elite because you have the shiny and nobody else does (hard-core vs casual play)...

And, then again, it forces people to band together, since a pickup party will almost never beat a mob like that (especially with out an exploit of some sort). So linkshells will become more active as people setup for those fights.

With that elitist mentality becomes a stronger motivator, and more die-hard players have fun... I could see that work I guess.

Make the materia yourself, it's free.
Have it melded by random crafters.

If you chose to buy the double-melded weapon at the AH, it's because you consider your time is worth more than your gil. If that's the case, why do you care what happens to your gil, it's just collecting dust anyway, and someone had to put the effort to make the weapon and meld it properly in the first place.

It's not like gil had any use before in the game, why panic about using it now? I'm sitting on millions, and I never did anything to get them, they just fell in my wallet from regular playing.