Subjobs in FFXIV? Your opinions.Follow

In general, everyone agrees that the job system from FFXI (and a couple of other FFV) works great in an MMORPG and should return.
I definitely think so. It's nice to be able to try new jobs and play styles without creating a new character altogether.

But how do you guys feel about possible subjobs in FFXIV?
Personally, I do not approve.

I do love the place subjobs have in FFXI... we've created tons of different job/subjob combos for different situations and tactics.

...but would you really want it again, in a new MMORPG?

A lot of people who have started FFXI that I know have gotten really turned off by the subjobs.

For example, a friend of mine recently wanted to play BRD.
So, he's re-subscribed, he gets in the game, he's ready to start playing his songs and partying.

...but he can't. First, he has to go back and level his White Mage to 37.
...but to level his White Mage to 37, he has to level a subjob of a subjob; Black Mage to 18.

In the future, if he's serious about Bard, he'll have to level up his Ninja subjob to 37, as well... and before that, Warrior to 18.

It's all very tedious, and not very user-friendly... it's a huge turn-off for a lot of novice players.

I don't personally have a problem with levelling subjobs, and it certainly is fun using different combos... just the other day I managed to take my Samurai from 1-37 in two days.

But is that part of the job system really necessary?
Should there be subjobs in FFXIV? Why or why not?

Discuss.

Edited, Jun 2nd 2009 6:35pm by Poubelle

I pretty much agree that subjobs are useful, but overbearing.

To level up a job, you need to level a sub, and to level a sub you need to level a sub sub, and to level a sub sub, well you get the point.

I'd rather just have it that the sub is automatically set at half the main job's level, even if you haven't leveled the sub yet. If you switch it to your main it is back to its original level. Sounds pretty stupid but it can save a lot of headache when starting to level a different job.

as nice as the subjob system is, It'd be a lot nicer if they just made it so the jobs could compete with one another on that job's merits alone, rather than the merits of the subjob. (By merits, I mean good points, strengths, not that godforsaken merit point time sync we're all so in love with )

the silly galka is right. come on SE deal the deathblow to the /nin mentality !!

I'm going back and forth... in some aspects subs are really nice, but I hate having to level something to level something else to level my main...

Someone on another thread mentioned like a job tree to one of my comments, I thought that was a cool idea... Gonna see if I can find it!

Ha, found it!!




Interesting idea!

I'd be happy with job switching but no sub-jobs

on a somewhat related note. make ninja a DD and do away with utsusemi!

@Amanada, just because the jobs will be returning (this IS a Final Fantasy game) doesn't mean they will work exactly like they do in FFXI.

And it would be a damn shame if they did.
Summoner needs to be reworked entirely, besides the fact that they summon creatures to fight, of course.
But that's just one example.

In my opinion, each job needs to have more of its own unique abilities/pros/cons so that people are able to create groups and support eachother without any subjobs like Ninja for Utsusemi, and so on.

It also just seems more traditional and realistic, like you actually fit into the Final Fantasy world if you're confined to the limits of your job while playing that job...

For example, why would a Black Mage be able to cast Ninjutsu?
Why would [insert any DD] be able to use dances to heal themselves?

Like I said, it makes for some interesting strategies and it's fun to come up with new ways to use our subjobs as new things get added to the game, but...

For an entirely new FF MMO, I don't think I'd like to see that part of the job system return.

All IMO.

Edited, Jun 2nd 2009 7:05pm by Poubelle

I think it's a little late to say this isn't going to be FFXI 2.0

All rumors should be laid to rest, heaven is upon us ladies and gentlemen.

Don't need subjobs, they create much too much blur between the jobs. You can add defensive capabilities or what have you usually to job mains anyways, and still differentiate them better than shadows or seigan.

This I agree with 100%. It totally sucks that certain jobs have money sinks in both equipment and spells, and other jobs just have to buy equipment. All spells should be learned at the appropriate level, instead of you having to track down an obscure scroll halfway across the universe that's going to several thousand bucks out of your wallet.

They should scrap sub jobs and introduce a skill tree OR even better, the Materia system from FFVII.

I agree with the Tactics idea, I liked that system a lot and would love to see something more complex and customizable in a MMO

Might be a nightmare for balance though. When there's a lot of options, inevitably people figure out which ones are the best in niche job roles and start insulting anyone who thinks differently, so a lot of options becomes one option for role X whether it's damage, healing, tank, etc.

Edited, Jun 2nd 2009 6:26pm by digitalcraft

Subjobs add uniqueness to the characters, the jobs themselves just need
to be balanced so that many jobs are viable when subbed. There needs to be more
abilities, and more for jobs to add to other jobs when subbed basically.

I agree. Subjobs work for the most part in XI but I wouldn't want it in XIV.

I want all the focus on the main job itself. I want for every job to be its own unique job. And balanced..*cough*

Edited, Jun 2nd 2009 11:10pm by CupDeNoodles

Subjobs for the most part are far too relied on to be good. It would be better if everything was stuck on the main job and balanced to perfection. Imagine how FFXI would be like without the subjob function... SE would have to buff every single job, SMN especially.

Hmm this is a toughy.

I'd maybe like to see "Specializations".

So maybe instead of having to switch to Subjob X. You could rather just bring up a screen and switch your specializations based upon what you have leveled.

So If you have lets say Ninja leveled to 75.
Then had DRK leveled to 30.

You could stick with NIN but then select aspects of DRK to "Specialize in" within certain slots etc. That would change your Job to "Dark Shinobi" and have abilities specific to that combination.

Promotes the same thing, ie. leveling as many jobs as possible to aid you in your PT role, but you can mix match what works best.

Makes it much more dynamic and allows you to experiment a bit more beyond just the abilities of a certain one class.

I really like the subjobs and I really hate the idea of a skill tree.

Man, I hate skill trees.

Someone mentioned something about taking aspects of every job you've leveled to specialize in. That would be pretty overpowering and is similar to just having multiple subjobs.

Subjobs allow for customization, but a very give and take kind of customization. Just main jobs would get boring and they'd have to offer a lot of main jobs to have this be a viable option. And what having a lot of main jobs would boil down to is just having regular jobs with subjobs, but not having to level the sub. Which would be alright I suppose. I enjoyed leveling subs, though. Going straight to 75 would be rather boring, I think. It was always interesting to hit a certain level, battling all these (at the time huge and difficult monsters) then have to go down to the Dunes and level the sub.

Personally? I don't like the sub job system. At all honestly. I LOVE being able to change jobs, and think everyone should be able to level different jobs on one character, however I do not like sub jobs.

I think each job should be specialized in what it does, and unique in it's own ways. I don't like "adding other jobs" to your main job to do different things, and would like to see how something is played by strictly being what you are, and being unique at it. Now, I do think jobs should have versitility, don't get me wrong. You should be able to change some stuff up and do different things differently, but not through the use of sub jobs. I personally hope there isn't sub jobs, but MORE specialization to the job you are on.

Mentioned this already on my ls, but I don't want subjobs in this game. I love it for what it is in FF, it helps bring out more, depending on the combination, of your current job. But it is without a doubt THE thing that has upset the balance and progression of FFXI. Subjob system was the original reason we stopped upping the level caps, subjob system also made it so people were left out of certain things because they didn't have a certain something leveled that wasn't the job you wanted to play. There are so many things that complicate the game, and subjobs was the worst offender. As nice as they were in this game, they need to go.

Id rather, whatever route they take, make each job more individualized and less reliant on something like a subjob. It would also make SE more focused on the way the actual jobs function rather than what they could do under 'certain' subjob combinations. The only thing I wouldn't mind is a BLU magic or FFT/FFV style skill subjob setting, where you can add certain traits, mix and match between jobs you completed, but even than it has the same problems I outlined above just in a different way. Personally what id really like is customizable abilities or skills like the merit system right from the start and use that to personalize your class, and than just have each job with its own system. This way you can personalize the way you play without hurting progression and balancing issues later, or at least minimizing them.

Edited, Jun 3rd 2009 2:30am by croythegreat

I agree with you all. Subjobs have to go. I nearly quit two times when starting out because I refused to level monk for warrior. I just wanted dragoon. I didn't wanted anything else. I wanted to get RDM to 30 to have fun with it but DRG needed war sub. Then when I got to level 60 as DRG I needed to level sam sub to 37. When I wanted to solo I had to level my whm and in order to level my whm I had to level my blm. COmpletely has to go. I'm sure Square Enix can find a better solution.

If japanese also feel the same way about the subjob. Then they must be the ones to convey the sentiment to Square Enix from our part. SE is a japanese company and will surely check in to ther BBS boards more than it will check american boards.

I want job specialization for the job I'm using. If I want to use another job its to play as the job not to mindlessly level it because its needed for my real job. Also leveling subjobs for subjobs also means you need gear. In the event that you need to cross the melee/warrior gap you would have to buy gear for your subjob.

As for a way of customization I think the best way would be a sort of Sphere grid for each job. Instead of getting a job trait or ability you get points to move in the sphere grid and you choose what job traits,etc. to unlock just like in FFX's sphere grid. I don't know about being able to access boards from other jobs but that is another situation. If it possible then it would have a level restriction and have half potency unless used by its true job.

If your in a shell that still thinks "/nin onry" then its time to question your shells intelligence. The "/nin onry" mentality never happened in most good linkshells. Its about optimizing for what your doing, /nin just happened to be good at a certain time on multiple things oh noez. Learn to play the game please.

Subjobs is a good idea, that SE haven't managed to deliver in a balanced fashion in 8 years. I'd rather they stop using a broken system in XIV than see them reuse it in a half-assed way again.

No, instead I want a more tech-tree like system. You get to allocate "sub job" abilities, spells and stats to enhance your main job. Perhaps your BLM wants stoneskin, gravity and convert? Then invest in those.

It is much better to let people get the abilities they want, than to force people to try and sub something that only partially fit as a sub.

Unless SE balances jobs to perfection not having subjobs will shun jobs worse then some are in XI.

Would you take a RDM with no sub over a WHM with no sub as a healer? No, but if RDM subs WHM they can be a decent healer and enfeeble. Not as perfect as a WHM but still can get the job done in a large amount of situations.

So please SE. Do not remove subjobs.

Edited, Jun 3rd 2009 10:20am by Alrefie