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Random wish for SeekersFollow

#1 Jan 14 2013 at 1:55 PM Rating: Default
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My WotG static is doing a big final push to finish up before Seekers comes out.

I had a random thought - all four major expansions have used a young woman as your primary "companion" in the adventures. There have been other characters of course, both male and female, but they're not the "buddy" types like the girls are.

Zilart: Lion
CoP: Prishe
Zilart: Aphmau
WotG: Lilsette

I hope Seekers has a young man as a "buddy" type, for once. It'd be different, and frankly I'm getting tired of the "spunky" archetype they keep re-using for the gals.
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#2 Jan 14 2013 at 1:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Based on 1:40 in the trailer, I'd guess SE has already decided...


...or even the preview screen, apparently.

Edited, Jan 14th 2013 2:00pm by xypin
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#3 Jan 14 2013 at 10:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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#4 Jan 15 2013 at 6:16 AM Rating: Decent
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catwho wrote:
I had a random thought - all four major expansions have used a young woman as your primary "companion" in the adventures.

You only just noticed this?
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#5 Jan 15 2013 at 6:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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I always liked how they're all girls, it makes XI a bit more original :D
The new one seems to be on the badass side, you know the one that acts cool and calm even when kicking butts.

Beside, you're getting the pink haired Elvaan.
#6 Jan 15 2013 at 10:23 AM Rating: Good
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Raelix wrote:
catwho wrote:
I had a random thought - all four major expansions have used a young woman as your primary "companion" in the adventures.

You only just noticed this?


I noticed it, but I never thought about it that much. I have always found the side characters more interesting anyway (I <3 Ulmia.)
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I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

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#7 Jan 15 2013 at 12:36 PM Rating: Decent
Eeri wrote:
I always liked how they're all girls, it makes XI a bit more original :D
The new one seems to be on the badass side, you know the one that acts cool and calm even when kicking butts.

Beside, you're getting the pink haired Elvaan.



Original in what way? Becuase if this was an RPG all but ToAU girls would be the cliche love interest.(She isn't since she is clearly in love with mister pirate over there. Prishe seems to be playing both sides of the fence. Is that her best friend or... Hmm. Lion story was short and she seem disinterested in you until the sentimental good bye.)

So thinking about it I guess I am being a bit over dramatic. So let's go with the usual female lead.

Lion- Tomboy
Prishe- Tomboy
(Can't remember her name)- Princess
Lilisette- Is slightly more complex when standing next to her other characters and probably the only one I wouldn't call generic with a fresh coat of paint. She has character arcs, she competent in fact sometimes shown as even stronger then you until she has her first crisis(And holy **** you gotta give that girl credit for not breaking down until that point) at which point you gotta pick up the ball for her and take it home.

So yeah, original how?
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#8 Jan 15 2013 at 1:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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How are they love interests? I play a female character but I know that has no effect on the storyline and the interaction with its NPCs.
If XI was an offline RPG it would be at least slightly more original compared to other titles in having all female protagonists for each of its chapters.
#9 Jan 15 2013 at 1:46 PM Rating: Default
Eeri wrote:
How are they love interests? I play a female character but I know that has no effect on the storyline and the interaction with its NPCs.
If XI was an offline RPG it would be at least slightly more original compared to other titles in having all female protagonists for each of its chapters.


Didn't really finish reading my post did ya. Also technically none of the women leads are the main protagonist, you are. Just the necessity of our characters being mute means they have to carry the story-line.

Edit: Double negative.

Edited, Jan 15th 2013 4:15pm by Laxedrane
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#10 Jan 15 2013 at 2:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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eh, almost every game/movie/book I read almost ever features men over women so I am not perturbed by XI breaking that trend. Nevermind that there are -plenty- of male characters throughout the storylines anyway.
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#11 Jan 15 2013 at 3:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
[
Didn't really finish reading my post did ya. Also technically none of the women leads are the main protagonist, you are. Just the necessity of our characters being mute means they have to carry the story-line.


What I meant with "original" was that no other MMORPGs out there constantly give you female co-protagonists in ALL of their expansions.
Their personalities may be a bit cliché, but that wasn't my point.

I should have expressed myself a little better, sorry.

Edited, Jan 15th 2013 10:39pm by Eeri
#12 Jan 15 2013 at 5:20 PM Rating: Decent
Eeri wrote:
Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
[
Didn't really finish reading my post did ya. Also technically none of the women leads are the main protagonist, you are. Just the necessity of our characters being mute means they have to carry the story-line.


What I meant with "original" was that no other MMORPGs out there constantly give you female co-protagonists in ALL of their expansions.
Their personalities may be a bit cliché, but that wasn't my point.

I should have expressed myself a little better, sorry.

Edited, Jan 15th 2013 10:39pm by Eeri


Ahh ok, I am unfortunately(Or fortunately depending on how you look at it) under nourished in playing MMOs. My only other MMO(And some would scoff at calling it that) was the phantasy star series of MMOs.

In the original PSO episode one. Red Ring RIco was your spiritual co-protagonist, you were charged in trying to find her so she never was by your side but she leave message pods all over the field giving your information about herself, the field you were on, the enemy, and the state of Poineer 1. So it felt like she was always there with more lore and support then any other character, of which mainly exclusively showed up in the side quests.

Episode 2 used the same concept except it was a guy. However they spiced things up by giving you a handler who was also female and was packed with personality(Especially since she fell in love with a super computer AI who was also in love with her. Which was pretty hilarious at the time especially when she dropped hints about that ball of weirdness.) She spoked to you the whole time and when you finally did find messages from Flowen she played them for you and commented. Making her your co-protagonist. 4 I don't remember well but I don't think you had a main co-protagonist.(Episode 3 was a completely different game onto itself and was also a card game. Ironicly having the strongest story and characters out of all 4)

Universe Episode one was offline only and forced you to play as one of the male story characters. Your sidekicks rotated but the female lead and love interest was definitely the secondary main character. Episode 2 your co-protagonist and almost exclusively your partner(She was almost always there with rotation being on your third partner) was Laia and in episode 3 the main character's, from episode 1, sister becomes your student and is your co-protagonist. With old protagonists taking the back line in a more solo double agent style and Leader role respectively.

In PSO2 episode 1 your co-protagonists is actually a couple. So you can see how it doesn't seem so odd or original to me.

Also I kind of feel like these Females are kind of there to flatter your ego... A lot. On top of which Lion, to no fault of her own since Zilart is a really short story, and Prishe with zero character arcs made them one dimensional and Nashmeira(Yeah I finally looked up her name) character arc being the default princess one. To me really made that feeling more noticeable. Invoking a feeling non-existant to me as a **** male. Also, to cut off disagreement with that sentiment at the pass look at how they look and act. Lion tom boyish look coupled with her revealing outfit. Prishe essentially being a loli. In looks and background only granted but her personality being out of place is canceled for me by the fact she almost always striking a pose. Nashmeira is more practically dressed unsurprisingly so, since she was doubling as an empress and puppetmaster however, her princess personality more then makes up for it. Then, finally, Lilisette... to which I don't think I have to explain. Re-in forced that feeling, incidentally which is why I accidentally slipped and called them "love interests" but didn't edit that slip out of my post becuase I was trying to make this point without explaining it in this much detail.

Bringing this all around to my final point, which is that dispite the rarity of female leads in MMOs the role of ego flattery these days to the main character is almost always left to female in games in general. Even with female leads. Which is why I agree and would like to see a male one this time around. However if this is also the norm in most mmos(Male being the ego flatterers), call me out and I will tip my hat on this point and step out of the discussion.

Edited, Jan 15th 2013 6:21pm by Laxedrane
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#13 Jan 15 2013 at 6:04 PM Rating: Good
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I think that what we have here is something like FFX.
We are in control of Tidus, whom is part of the main story to certain degree. But we all know X is really Yuna and Spira's story, not Tidus' despite the whole "This is my story" thing.
I think it's a lot like XI, where we are in control of what seems to be the protagonist but we are indeed just part of something bigger that just so happen to always have all-female leading characters.

I particularly enjoyed WotG which also has a female antagonist, and a pretty badass one at that.
I'm also a **** guy, but I always got the "You're my adventurer partner" vibe from the girls. Especially with Lilisette, I like her the best because of that.
#14 Jan 15 2013 at 7:15 PM Rating: Decent
I have to agree with your FFX assessment Eeri but to a point. Prishe and lillisette can get by on that analysis but it's a tough sell for me for Lion and Nashmeira. Lion was pure support in my opinion and an almost impossible sell to me. Nashmeira, she comes closer to prishe on that point then you have to think about everything else going on in that story. Besides providing a constant damsel in distress she did very little to help in the over-all plot. Only significant in the pirate having a change of heart and I guess mildly in the end when she makes alexander.... Weaker? I don't know what the **** pushing those buttons did... Really making the story more about the pirate and her brother then anything else. Even Naja would of made a better partner(and to some degree she was).

Anyways. an ego flatter doesn't necessarily have to be a love interest. Jeane, in Bayonetta, was the games ego flatterer. Always showing off, always shown as being stronger until the end but always fought Bayonetta on her skill level and purposely lost despite being stronger for most of the game. Remember, it's our ego they are flattering, not the game character. Even the gods "sacrifice" themselves so she reawaken as the eye for the main bad guy to sacrifice.

Anyways, it's a really point that's in the eye of the holder I guess so there's no use banging on about it. I too loved Lilisette and the wotg storyline(Even more so since that whole story was backed to the brim with charismatic characters and good arcs in the main ones.) Just a little tired of essentially the same concept over and over again.
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#15 Jan 15 2013 at 7:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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The age thing isn't really surprising. For some reason Japanese media (at least the sort which tends to get exported) has a massive obsession with young protagonists. Young men saving the world before they learn how to shave, even younger girls who are somehow badasses for no apparent reason...

There has to be a 'main' character because your character is basically a nobody, a set of eyes to watch the story with. I guess they didn't want to feel like they're twisting your arm to play your self-created character to a script, but you basically have to follow the script anyway.

Lion had no reason to exist. She just kinda showed up from time to time as if to say 'Hey, this is a story cutscene'. Then at the last minute she acts friendly just in time to die, so you can feel sad that your "friend" had to sacrifice herself.

I don't really see how an underaged zombie is supposed to be a love interest, but this is the internet I guess.

Also, if you want a strong female character that mostly avoids gender stereotypes just look at approximately every mithra NPC in the game.
#16 Jan 15 2013 at 7:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Eh. If FF12 couldn't break away from tried-and-true cast formulas before FF14's unexpected failure, what chance do you think SoA has to abandon the "mission girl" now? Let's just hope we get one less gratuitous than Vaan and Penelo.
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#17 Jan 15 2013 at 8:07 PM Rating: Good
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Surely the pink-haired elf will be faaaaaaaaaabulous.
#18 Jan 15 2013 at 8:26 PM Rating: Good
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I'm hoping that FFXIV ends up having some iconic characters like Prishe.

Edited, Jan 15th 2013 9:27pm by Dizmo
#19 Jan 15 2013 at 11:21 PM Rating: Good
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Dizmo wrote:
I'm hoping that FFXIV ends up having some iconic characters like Prishe.


Well, it already has the most badass Cid since FFVII. And Loiusoux is pretty iconic, especially after that ending movie.

I don't like any of the female protagonists though. The Ul'dahn Mi'quote singer was almost there ... I just couldn't get over the fact that she was in her underwear.

Edited, Jan 16th 2013 12:28am by catwho
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I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

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#20 Jan 16 2013 at 3:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Shantotto doesn't count?
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#21 Jan 16 2013 at 4:45 AM Rating: Good
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Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
I have to agree with your FFX assessment Eeri but to a point. Prishe and lillisette can get by on that analysis but it's a tough sell for me for Lion and Nashmeira. Lion was pure support in my opinion and an almost impossible sell to me. Nashmeira, she comes closer to prishe on that point then you have to think about everything else going on in that story. Besides providing a constant damsel in distress she did very little to help in the over-all plot. Only significant in the pirate having a change of heart and I guess mildly in the end when she makes alexander.... Weaker? I don't know what the **** pushing those buttons did... Really making the story more about the pirate and her brother then anything else. Even Naja would of made a better partner(and to some degree she was).

Anyways. an ego flatter doesn't necessarily have to be a love interest. Jeane, in Bayonetta, was the games ego flatterer. Always showing off, always shown as being stronger until the end but always fought Bayonetta on her skill level and purposely lost despite being stronger for most of the game. Remember, it's our ego they are flattering, not the game character. Even the gods "sacrifice" themselves so she reawaken as the eye for the main bad guy to sacrifice.

Anyways, it's a really point that's in the eye of the holder I guess so there's no use banging on about it. I too loved Lilisette and the wotg storyline(Even more so since that whole story was backed to the brim with charismatic characters and good arcs in the main ones.) Just a little tired of essentially the same concept over and over again.


I agree on the Lion thing, but you have to remember it was the first expansion and we didn't really have any amazing character back then apart from maybe someone from the city storylines and the Shadow Lord arc.
Grav'iton had a greater impact on me than Lion to be honest.

Nashmeira is an Empress. She's not your typical european princess like I don't know.. Garnet I guess. Being an Empress (in a near-east inspired land at that) is fairly different.
She acted like someone who had no clue and got caught up in something way bigger than what she could handle, hence why she seeks our help through Naja (whom I think was the best character in the entirety of ToAU. Honestly, they could have made a mini-expansion about her instead of the Mog thing).
I agree that is far away from the "adventuring partner" Prishe or Lilisette are, and I guess you could consider her more like the one that helps draggin the story on with her "I don't know how to ragnarok" personality.

I also did the Windurst questline for WotG and I must agree with ItAMyri's opinion on Mithras. Perih Vashai is the coolest Ranger ever.

PS <3 Bayonetta.



Edited, Jan 16th 2013 11:46am by Eeri

Edited, Jan 16th 2013 11:47am by Eeri
#22 Jan 16 2013 at 4:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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How about a spunky female... Quadav? Or maybe an Orc with gumption? Or a Mithra that acts like a Galka?
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#23 Jan 16 2013 at 5:11 AM Rating: Excellent
Eeri wrote:
Naja (whom I think was the best character in the entirety of ToAU. Honestly, they could have made a mini-expansion about her instead of the Mog thing).

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#24 Jan 16 2013 at 6:00 AM Rating: Decent
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I hated every interaction with Naja. She never had a redeeming moment for all the abuse and ****
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#25 Jan 16 2013 at 7:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Raelix wrote:
I hated every interaction with Naja. She never had a redeeming moment for all the abuse and bullsh*t.


Some people like to be abused.
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#26 Jan 16 2013 at 10:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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RavennofTitan wrote:
Raelix wrote:
I hated every interaction with Naja. She never had a redeeming moment for all the abuse and bullsh*t.
Some people like to be abused.
Like her 2nd in command Abquhbah? You know they totally have an awesome dom/sub thing going on. At one point he does something that **** her off, and says "Okay I'll go put myself in the stocks." I'm sure many spankings ensued.
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#27 Jan 16 2013 at 4:53 PM Rating: Good
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catwho wrote:
RavennofTitan wrote:
Raelix wrote:
I hated every interaction with Naja. She never had a redeeming moment for all the abuse and bullsh*t.
Some people like to be abused.
Like her 2nd in command Abquhbah? You know they totally have an awesome dom/sub thing going on. At one point he does something that **** her off, and says "Okay I'll go put myself in the stocks." I'm sure many spankings ensued.

You know an NPC is successfully presented when (s)he gets referenced in normal PC chat.

I used to run a very successful Assault linkshell -- we routinely won all the assaults when it was still level 75. From time to time the members referred to me as Naja.

[innocent]I have no idea why.[/innocent]
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#28 Jan 17 2013 at 10:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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I guess Naja was supposed to be the abusive tsundere type, but they didn't do nearly enough to show that she had a soft side and make her sympathetic. She does come to back us up at one point and she cries when we're about to leave, but it's just not enough and it's not very convincing.
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