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Pet Magic Evasion +16 / Pet Magic Defence Bonus +11??Follow

#1 Nov 09 2012 at 9:11 AM Rating: Good
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Can someone explain the difference of the two?

Thanks
Kendel
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#2 Nov 09 2012 at 9:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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MEVA (magic evade) is essentially chance to resist a spell.
MDB (Magic defense) is essentially a direct reduction to incoming damage.

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#3 Nov 09 2012 at 9:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Magic Defense Bonus functions like a magic damage "divider", as opposed to Magic Attack Bonus which is like a magic damage multiplier. This does not affect resist rates in any way (so, for stuff like enfeebles, MDB does jack ****

MDB is similar to -Magic Damage Taken, with a couple of key differences:
1) MDB doesn't have any (known) cap like -MDT does
2) MDB suffers from diminishing returns due to the way MAB and MDB interact with each other in the magic damage formula. Without getting too technical about it, it just means that the more of it you have, the less effective it gets at reducing damage further.

Magic Evasion is basically like an all-elements Barspell; it increases resist rates for presumably any kind of magic attack (but generally, to a far lesser degree than something like a Barspell would do for a single element) because in game lingo, resisting a spell technically means that it "missed" you. In the case of magic damage, a resist will cut the damage you take by a percentage, and for enfeebles the effect duration will be shortened or will just plain not land at all.
#4 Nov 09 2012 at 11:23 AM Rating: Good
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OK now I have a better understanding of the two.
Which one would be better for fighting magic NM's in abbey
thanks
#5 Nov 09 2012 at 11:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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If you don't want to read all this: Short answer MDB. As to why read the rest if you want.




Typically MDB is better, unless you can get your resist rates fairly high. Considering the base value for most player/creatures is considered C level going against casting specific enemies leaves you in a hole resist wise to begin with. If you are facing a monster that is BLM for example you are taking a C skill and putting it against an A+ skill, which means you would need to cover a lot of ground to make it up. Also consider that the resist is spread across the board and most mobs will cast a specific element associated with their elemental type.

Adding only 16 points of resistance is going to have a barely noticeable impact on the incoming damage. Due to the fact that the target will likely be over capping your pet anyhow. At best the mob can have a 95% full land rate, any skill above that is considered over capping, however if you raise your pets skill at resistance, that value will still be in play.

EX. if I only need 400 skill to cap 95% land rate but have 500 skill 100 skill is really not calculated. Lets assume you and I were fighting and you decided to add 50 resistance points to negate my 95% land rate. I would then have 450 skill being calculated to keep me at cap with 50 skill being not applied to the calculation. You would in fact need to add over 100 resistance to negate my capped land rate.

MDB however will reduce the magic damage outright, regardless if your pet is seeing full or partial damage based on resistance. In the case against a BLM mob for example the MDB would reduce the (assumed level 91+) mobs damage mod from 1.4 to 1.25 based on the MAB/MDB calculation which would be 1.4/1.11 (BLM trait MAB 6 +40MAB vs the MDB+11). This will reduce your overall damage intake by more than increasing resistance.

Unless you can super charge your resist rate to fairly high levels (players would use say fire resist gear + fire resists buffs like Barspell, or Carols.) the stat is very hard to recommend as damage mitigation. It just takes to much to close the gap, especially when your targets are dedicated jobs with inherent stats of those jobs. In terms of facing cast heavy mobs you will be playing with jobs like BLM and RDM each with fairly high MAB and MACC mods.


Just a side note about element type to clarify that for you:

A crab for example is a water type mob, it will natively have a slightly higher resistance vs Water based spells, and natively be weaker at resisting Thunder based spells with the remaining elements neutral. So you might say that a crab has a Resistance level of a Bskill for water, but a D skill for thunder, with the others being C skill.

Edited, Nov 9th 2012 12:56pm by rdmcandie

Edited, Nov 9th 2012 1:02pm by rdmcandie
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#6 Nov 09 2012 at 12:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Great Post.
#7 Nov 09 2012 at 8:41 PM Rating: Default
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rdmcandie wrote:
If you don't want to read all this: Short answer MDB. As to why read the rest if you want.

Typically MDB is better, unless you can get your resist rates fairly high. Considering the base value for most player/creatures is considered C level going against casting specific enemies leaves you in a hole resist wise to begin with. If you are facing a monster that is BLM for example you are taking a C skill and putting it against an A+ skill, which means you would need to cover a lot of ground to make it up. Also consider that the resist is spread across the board and most mobs will cast a specific element associated with their elemental type.

Adding only 16 points of resistance is going to have a barely noticeable impact on the incoming damage. Due to the fact that the target will likely be over capping your pet anyhow. At best the mob can have a 95% full land rate, any skill above that is considered over capping, however if you raise your pets skill at resistance, that value will still be in play.

EX. if I only need 400 skill to cap 95% land rate but have 500 skill 100 skill is really not calculated. Lets assume you and I were fighting and you decided to add 50 resistance points to negate my 95% land rate. I would then have 450 skill being calculated to keep me at cap with 50 skill being not applied to the calculation. You would in fact need to add over 100 resistance to negate my capped land rate.

MDB however will reduce the magic damage outright, regardless if your pet is seeing full or partial damage based on resistance. In the case against a BLM mob for example the MDB would reduce the (assumed level 91+) mobs damage mod from 1.4 to 1.25 based on the MAB/MDB calculation which would be 1.4/1.11 (BLM trait MAB 6 +40MAB vs the MDB+11). This will reduce your overall damage intake by more than increasing resistance.

Unless you can super charge your resist rate to fairly high levels (players would use say fire resist gear + fire resists buffs like Barspell, or Carols.) the stat is very hard to recommend as damage mitigation. It just takes to much to close the gap, especially when your targets are dedicated jobs with inherent stats of those jobs. In terms of facing cast heavy mobs you will be playing with jobs like BLM and RDM each with fairly high MAB and MACC mods.


Just a side note about element type to clarify that for you:

A crab for example is a water type mob, it will natively have a slightly higher resistance vs Water based spells, and natively be weaker at resisting Thunder based spells with the remaining elements neutral. So you might say that a crab has a Resistance level of a Bskill for water, but a D skill for thunder, with the others being C skill.


I imagine it may just be examples, but i highlighted the bold part on which i'm a little sceptical.

Did anyone ever put anything forward that made 50 points of elemental resist equal to the opponent losing 50 skill points worth of accuracy? As far as the example goes, i'm pretty confident that for people to grasp it's understanding it's a decent analog for pointing out monsters have a near capped magic accuracy and wont lose that all too easily, But to flat out say 50 points of ice resist make a monster have an accuracy of 450 skill worth opposed to 500 seems a bit made up. Do you have a reference from somewhere?
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#8 Nov 09 2012 at 10:52 PM Rating: Good
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I said it was an example, the numbers in that are illustrated to show the relationship between Magic Evade, and Magic ACC. The formula functions identically to that of Melee Accuracy vs Evasion. It posses the same base calculations, and likely follows the exact same differential check systems (level gap for example.)

ACC/MACC is divided into 2 basic stats. Skill level and a Stat. Dex/Agi is used in Martial Combat, INT/MND is used in Magical Combat.

EVA/MEVA is divided into 2 basic stats. Skill level and a stat. Agi is used in Martial Combat. MND is used in Magical Combat.

Note: Some believe INT for Black Magic, MND for White Magic, MND and INT also reduce damage taken akin to VIT so it is possible they are separate entities for resistance as well.

To determine your base hit rate you take you ACC and Divide it by the Evasion. To Determine your land rate you take the MACC/MEVA.
I am sure this goes without saying that gear and abilities are also included in this, but I am speaking base mechanics as they function the same regardless of gear and ability variable.

Now that is besides the point. What I want to focus on particularly is your question and I am sorry for the side rant. It seems that you did not follow my example, I apologize for that. I will try and clarify it some maybe. The last line of your post does confuses me some. What I flat out said was nothing like what you wrote. Maybe that was my fault I don't know.

What I said was If I have 500 skill, but hit the land rate cap (of 95%) with only 400 skill being applied, 100 of my skill is counting for nothing. 95% is the cap. Period. However if you (my target) added 50 skill points to your resistance level, I would still be ok because I have 100 Skill that didn't count but now does. So instead of me needing 400 skill to cap, I now need 450. Of my initial 500, 50 is now not being calculated because...95% is the cap. Period. It would take you 100 Resistance to have my 95% cap be broken, because I have 500 skill and only needed 400skill to cap initially...and 95% is the cap. Period.

Or maybe I got confused by what you said, and are asking how do I know that resists and macc are valued 1:1. I don't really know 100%, I did do some testing a while back and established mobs seem to have B skills in Strong elements, vs D skills in weaker elements, but those posts I believe were deleted with RDD. I confirmed that MACC from enhancing magic followed the same 1:1 rule as MACC from other schools. (or to the point that the .9 possibility didn't register as a quantity) and used that testing further to test how mob resist rates correlated to the enspells. I did some work on finding the rate of resistance reduction associated with the enspell 2 line when they came out (I just submitted parse data on that one and had no other influence on the findings.).

But ya its either 1:1 or the .9 possibility. In fact it works the exact same as Melee Hit Rate Calculations, same caps, same floors, same mechanics.

As for a source, pretty well any FFXI site with a decent wiki (BG/FFXIWIKI probably best bets) Contains all the information you will likely need for learning the base mechanics of the game.

I hope that helps.

Edited, Nov 9th 2012 11:56pm by rdmcandie
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