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#1 May 22 2012 at 5:02 PM Rating: Sub-Default
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Ok, have always has pretty strong names as charaters. Chucknoris, Odanobonuga, Natzi, Presidentobama, Kimjongil, GeorgeBush, Hillary clintion. Adolfhtler.


Most of them are mules who either craft or just hold information, excluding Pres, natzi and kim.

Now I have all these chaters with playtime since 2004 and on. Kimjongil became presidentobama in 2007, due to switching server and someone having the name. But flash forward to 2012 five years later. While playing the charaters during that time, never had any issues with GM's or playerbase. If anything some people thought it funny.

Now in one months time two different GM's don't just pick on one name Natzi, but presidentobama as well. I am thrown in jail about a month ago from a worm abby party, and the GM says someone is offended by your name "natzi" Plealse switch it here and now. After a debate it is switched. When I exit town that same day and for the next two weeks, some friends notie my name changed and old LS mates.

Well they decide to laugh and shout and post an article on BG wiki how not only they succeeded in kicking me from an LS, but they got a GM to change a name and could make a mokery of me. Ths went on for bout two weeks, to where I didn't even care for the server I was on. If peole were like that. So I leave. I also tell the GM that what he did was wrong, he caused harrassment. fromtown to internet and I even let him see the jueno chat log. He says I am sorry, but hey i am not responsible. I enjoy making your play time unplesent.

So then last night I try logging on and I not dont much all week excluding self play making my double attack staff, and skilling up. To find out my account has been susspended for harrassment for 24 hours. I can't even think what but was told in 24 hours by SE support it be lifted. They not even sure why, but I am just going to guess its on the names.

I mean is this Tanakas idea of harrassing players to the point they think the game is unplesent? 80% what I do in the game I solo. The only events I do due to living in asia are with a few japanese Ls's for events like Legion, and even then I say nothing. They cant understand me, I don't understand them, we just play our jobs and do the event. Honestly I kinda like it that way, no drama.

Is it just me or are teh GM's harrassing many people recently. And if they tell me a name is offensive, well these names have been out and adventuring for 4+ years some 6+. Why the huge crackdown now?

#2 May 22 2012 at 5:38 PM Rating: Good
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If you recognized that your character names might cause people to be offended, you should have named them something else from the start.

This game is huge. Even after playing on my same server for 9 years, I still see names I have never seen before. It is entirely possible that you were just incredibly lucky and those that would be offended never saw your name until now.
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#3 May 22 2012 at 6:12 PM Rating: Excellent
As xypin pointed out, if you recognized that your character names might be considered offensive, then you were basically on borrowed time with them anyway. A GM is only going to do something about a character name if that character name is reported to them, so your characters being "called out" like that is because players reported them at that time. Up to that point, you obviously just got lucky and not had them report you, but given the circumstances, it's clear that someone or a number of individuals on your server contacted a GM, reported that they felt your character name was offensive, and after reviewing the name felt that actions needed to be taken. It's not the GMs fault for doing his job on the matter, so don't blame Square Enix for it.

All I can say is that you should reconsider the names you choose for your characters in the future, because anything remotely political, religious, or anything along those lines can be legitimately offensive to someone.
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#4 May 22 2012 at 6:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Square Enix wrote:
3.5 Naming Right.
You may not use any name or other intellectual property belonging to SQUARE ENIX or any other third party in your use of the Game (for example, naming a character after a celebrity, company, product or superhero).


You're clearly violating the Terms of Service and people are reporting you. The GMs are just doing their job.

Now the people reporting you may be doing so for reasons other than being offended by your name, and if so I don't agree with the tactic they are taking at all, but you're kind of setting yourself up for it. Just choose a name that meets the TOS and keep your proverbial nose clean, and there's not much the GMs can do to you no matter who has an issue with you.
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#5 May 22 2012 at 6:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yet I still believe Abortionmage is still on my server. GM claims the name has nothing to do with aborting babies, maybe the person is just good at canceling spells.....
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#6 May 22 2012 at 7:46 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
You may not use any name or other intellectual property belonging to SQUARE ENIX or any other third party in your use of the Game (for example, naming a character after a celebrity, company, product or superhero).


It is a very ambiguous clause though. Take Blizzard for example. Trademarked food product by Dairy Queen, supervillain by Marvel. And its the name of a video game company too. Then there's McDonald (no s), easily confused with the fast food chain but it can be a person's name. And celebrities, I'm sure they only focused on current names (Anyone going to flag Willrogers, Jimmystewart, Maewest, Rodserling, Hgwells, Janeausten?). How often were character names gone after? (Jamestkirk, Spock, Iamnotspock, Perrymason, Kojak, Jimrockford, Thebeaver, Eddiehaskell, Wardcleaver, Magnumpi, etc).

Now, the OPs names are basically asking for it. A lot of people won't be offended or think the name is in bad taste but go meh at it. Natzi might offend some Germans given that being a touchy subject in Germany just as Tojo and some of the names of the top military figures in wartime Japan would be touchy (as would Aum Shinrikyo or any mention of sarin) and any misspelling of Hitler certainly would trigger some kind of response at some point. Of course, names like Napoleonbonaparte or Papadocduvalier might not get a reaction. I think the clause is just a loose "just in case a celebrity contacts us and is offended by a name they saw/heard was in the game or a company doesn't like a player using their product/character's name". When a GM gets a offensive name request, no matter what the motive on the person reporting the name (legitimate offense, trolling, revenge), if it's brought to their attention they are going to have to respond if it fits the criteria (i.e. someone offended by Uglykitten isn't going to get the name changed).

As for recent political names (Bush, Obama, Hillary Clinton), they may react to that because the political climate has become increasingly toxic from the late '00s on. It's approaching 1850s-1880s levels of vitriol and combativeness. Non-political/non-news sites/forums tend to avoid politics and try and enforce it because it often degenerates into a lot of fighting once again because of that climate (like some sports forums) because in some venues (ahem, Yahoo Sports) it spills over into comments that have absolutely nothing about politics. It's that some people are so worked up, their bile just bubbles up and spills over everywhere they post. Those are political names. Ironically, Georgehwbush might get less reports than Georgebush or Georgewbush (and the reports might come from idiots who think H.W. was W.). I doubt you'll get flagged for Williamhenryharrison or Grovercleveland. The political climate in Japan, Korea, China, from what I see in the news (mainly NHK) doesn't seem anywhere near as rancorous as in the US (occasional throwing of chairs aside).

As others noted, you set yourself up for it. It was a matter of time before someone reported it and luck there was no reports for so long. Also note SE has been very cautious with FFXI due to trying not to garner offense in multiple markets, thus why Gambler was renamed Corsair. In a 2006 interview they directly said they couldn't name it Gambler because of anti-gambling sentiments or laws in some markets and so they covered it with the pirate motif (which people were asking for because when one remembers the '00s, it was zombies & pirates).
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#7 May 22 2012 at 10:58 PM Rating: Good
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I'd be interested in seeing this thread on BG.
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#8 May 23 2012 at 12:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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zellbaca wrote:
I'd be interested in seeing this thread on BG.

It's fit well with the other moronic threads over there, I agree.
#10 May 23 2012 at 3:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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The political climate in Japan, Korea, China, from what I see in the news (mainly NHK) doesn't seem anywhere near as rancorous as in the US (occasional throwing of chairs aside).


Japan's a bit calmer, China's is non-existent (members rarely publicly disagree with the CCP), Korea's on the other hand is bat sh!t crazy. The two parties here can and will resort to physical violence to get their point across. This includes start fist fights on the parliament floor because you disagree with what the speaker is saying, or taking an axe to someone's office door to make a point. The drama that happens between the two parties makes for fine entertainment, especially once you realize the Chaebul control everything anyway.

Kim Jung Il was a mass murderer, he just murdered his own people and not someone else's. He's only marginally better then his father Kim Il Sung, he just throws you and your family into a lifelong labor camp where you will slowly die from exhaustion, malnutrition and exposure over the course of 15 to 20 years. The few defectors who make it to SK safely describe conditions in those camps as hell on earth. A girls sister was killed for having the audacity to get pregnant from being raped by a prison guard. Men work till their arms or legs stop functioning, then their put on the ground and keep working till they stop breathing. I'm not exaggerating and if anyone wants I can post links to the testimony's from the defectors who survived the journey.

So I think I can see exactly why having the name of the worlds biggest human rights violator, mass murderer and all around bad guy might just maybe offend people. Hitler was a kinder man then KJI / KIS.
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#11 May 23 2012 at 3:41 AM Rating: Excellent
Let's keep the political talk from this section guys. While it may have some relevance to the topic given the names the OP used, this isn't the section to start having discussions of country leaders and potential atrocities they have under their belts. That's more for the OoT and Asylum, so leave it at that. The reason that the OP's character names were GM'd have already been established, so there's no real need to talk about that more, at least not in =10.
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#12 May 23 2012 at 4:59 AM Rating: Good
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zoogelio wrote:
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You may not use any name or other intellectual property belonging to SQUARE ENIX or any other third party in your use of the Game (for example, naming a character after a celebrity, company, product or superhero).


It is a very ambiguous clause though.


No, it's pretty straightforward. You may not name a character after a celebrity. The meaning is very clear and concise. A young child could understand. I do understand that "celebrity" can be subjective, but only so much can be done about that.

Quote:
Take Blizzard for example. Trademarked food product by Dairy Queen, supervillain by Marvel. And its the name of a video game company too.


It's also the name for a severe snow storm, and a spell in game. Yes the word Blizzard can be trademarked/copyrighted at the same time for a food product, a comic book character, and a game company. As long as no one can reasonably confuse one with the other that's fine. I once saw a vitamin supplement advertised on TV called "Megamen." That's not a problem as long as they don't claim that it can turn you into a blue fighting robot or try to tie it somehow back to the character Mega Man without Capcom's permission.

Quote:
Then there's McDonald (no s), easily confused with the fast food chain but it can be a person's name.


It's a generic name as long as one doesn't try to attach it to producing fast food or act as though they represent McDonald's when they don't.

Quote:
And celebrities, I'm sure they only focused on current names (Anyone going to flag Willrogers, Jimmystewart, Maewest, Rodserling, Hgwells, Janeausten?). How often were character names gone after? (Jamestkirk, Spock, Iamnotspock, Perrymason, Kojak, Jimrockford, Thebeaver, Eddiehaskell, Wardcleaver, Magnumpi, etc).


They could go after those names though. SE is inconsistent with their enforcement of their own policy, but that's their prerogative unless some complaint or judgement is filed on behalf of a trademark or copyright holder.

Quote:
Now, the OPs names are basically asking for it. A lot of people won't be offended or think the name is in bad taste but go meh at it. Natzi might offend some Germans given that being a touchy subject in Germany just as Tojo and some of the names of the top military figures in wartime Japan would be touchy (as would Aum Shinrikyo or any mention of sarin) and any misspelling of Hitler certainly would trigger some kind of response at some point. Of course, names like Napoleonbonaparte or Papadocduvalier might not get a reaction. I think the clause is just a loose "just in case a celebrity contacts us and is offended by a name they saw/heard was in the game or a company doesn't like a player using their product/character's name". When a GM gets a offensive name request, no matter what the motive on the person reporting the name (legitimate offense, trolling, revenge), if it's brought to their attention they are going to have to respond if it fits the criteria (i.e. someone offended by Uglykitten isn't going to get the name changed).


Yeah it's pretty much a CYA by SE. They're doing it to protect themselves from angry customers and potential legal action. They also want their game to maintain a certain appearance, and keeping player names in check is part of that.

Quote:
As for recent political names (Bush, Obama, Hillary Clinton), they may react to that because the political climate has become increasingly toxic from the late '00s on. It's approaching 1850s-1880s levels of vitriol and combativeness. Non-political/non-news sites/forums tend to avoid politics and try and enforce it because it often degenerates into a lot of fighting once again because of that climate (like some sports forums) because in some venues (ahem, Yahoo Sports) it spills over into comments that have absolutely nothing about politics. It's that some people are so worked up, their bile just bubbles up and spills over everywhere they post. Those are political names. Ironically, Georgehwbush might get less reports than Georgebush or Georgewbush (and the reports might come from idiots who think H.W. was W.). I doubt you'll get flagged for Williamhenryharrison or Grovercleveland. The political climate in Japan, Korea, China, from what I see in the news (mainly NHK) doesn't seem anywhere near as rancorous as in the US (occasional throwing of chairs aside).


Well, the name doesn't really have to be offensive to break the TOS. Politicians are celebrities to varying degrees. While I don't know that there are any universally loved politicians, the names of such people would be just as much a violation as the name of <Insert Murderous Dictator Here>. The more controversial name is much more likely to get reported as you say, but if someone wanted to they could report "Motherteresa" as a violation of TOS as well. Yes I know she's not a politician, but she's about as close to a universally respected person that I could think of.

Edited, May 23rd 2012 7:02am by Camiie

Edited, May 23rd 2012 10:11am by Camiie
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#13 May 23 2012 at 6:54 AM Rating: Good
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Camiie wrote:

It's also the name for a severe snow storm, and a spell in game. Yes the word Blizzard can be trademarked/copyrighted at the same time for a food product, a comic book character, and a game company. As long as no one can reasonably confuse one with the other that's fine. I once saw a vitamin supplement advertised on TV called "Megamen." That's not a problem as long as they don't claim that it can turn you into a blue fighting robot or try to tie it somehow back to the character Mega Man without Capcom's permission.


Lest we not forget one of the biggest copyright infringements of all time - but apparently if you try to sue the perp he just mutates his operation into something else, so his organization cannot be killed effectively

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTitP5_yDUU
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#14 May 23 2012 at 7:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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Camiie wrote:
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Take Blizzard for example. Trademarked food product by Dairy Queen, supervillain by Marvel. And its the name of a video game company too.
It's also the name for a severe snow storm,
That's not an example of trademarking.
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#15 May 23 2012 at 8:09 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Camiie wrote:
Quote:
Take Blizzard for example. Trademarked food product by Dairy Queen, supervillain by Marvel. And its the name of a video game company too.
It's also the name for a severe snow storm,
That's not an example of trademarking.


No it's not, but it's an example of a common word with a common use also used as a trademark. Also, I was being snarky. What can I say?
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#16 May 23 2012 at 2:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Camiie wrote:
Also, I was being snarky.

Around here, I just assume most posters are being snarky. It seems to be par for the course.
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#17 May 23 2012 at 5:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Vlorsutes, Lord of Stuff wrote:
Let's keep the political talk from this section guys. While it may have some relevance to the topic given the names the OP used, this isn't the section to start having discussions of country leaders and potential atrocities they have under their belts. That's more for the OoT and Asylum, so leave it at that. The reason that the OP's character names were GM'd have already been established, so there's no real need to talk about that more, at least not in =10.


Damn I wish I could rate you up XD.

Any chance you'll Admin the ff14 forums? :P
#18 May 23 2012 at 8:18 PM Rating: Default
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Well I still not 100% sure what the deal is. When I called SE theysaid it was a 24 hour ban LM-11, but it has been three days. Whengiven a reason, they said harrassment to another player. I would disagree with that, as if anything I play solo or am harrassed by others.

Since the action took place while I was offline, I am not sure, SE itself suport can't say anything, so as far as I know someone could of hacked my account. I don't use bots, or windower, so no idea. I do think its wrong you can be banned , temp or perminent, and not even know why.



#19 May 23 2012 at 10:44 PM Rating: Excellent
It's right there in the Terms of Service though that they can ban you for any reason they see fit, and for the most part they never say why a character is banned, or if they do, it's a very vague reason as to why. However, you've commented that you have been required in the past to change character names because they were deemed offensive in some manner, and naming or having a character something that could be deemed offensive or against the Terms of Service (which Presidentobama would fall under, as pointed out that it falls under "celebrity status") after having been warned in the past about it would be considered a repeat offense in their eyes. That is why your character is temporarily (possibly permanently) banned. Having a character name that is deemed offensive falls under the blanket offense of harassment, since it is "harming" the other individual. The reason it "happened" while you were offline was probably because it was reported to a GM at some point while you were online, and by the time they reviewed everything and made a decision on the matter, you had already logged off.

We can't say whether or not those that reported you were legitimately offended or wanted to do it out of malice, but as said, the GMs are not the ones to blame in this circumstance.

Edited, May 24th 2012 12:57am by Vlorsutes
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#20 May 24 2012 at 2:54 AM Rating: Decent
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I have seen a lot of entitlement around here lately. It really makes me laugh.

from my link
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Narcissism
In clinical psychology and psychiatry, an unrealistic, exaggerated, or rigidly held sense of entitlement may be considered a symptom of narcissistic personality disorder, seen in those who 'because of early frustrations...arrogate to themselves the right to demand lifelong reimbursement from fate.


Perhaps I should have posted this in this thread
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#21 May 24 2012 at 10:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Quote:
Let's keep the political talk from this section guys. While it may have some relevance to the topic given the names the OP used, this isn't the section to start having discussions of country leaders and potential atrocities they have under their belts. That's more for the OoT and Asylum, so leave it at that. The reason that the OP's character names were GM'd have already been established, so there's no real need to talk about that more, at least not in =10.



Damn I wish I could rate you up XD.


Whenever Grover Cleveland gets mentioned, everything stops, EVERYTHING. I've seen it happen several times in any number of forums. True story. So if you ever want a thread to come to a complete stop, just mention Grover Cleveland. Haven't seen if it works in real life (dude walks into a loud bar, yells "Grover Cleveland" loudly, bar comes to a sudden silence, music comes to a screeching halt).
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#22 May 24 2012 at 11:06 PM Rating: Decent
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I've played a lot of MMOs, with a lot of different and potentially offensive character names. Personally, I couldn't care less what anyone calls their character as long as it's not filled with curse words. I've never understood the naming policies of many online games, and don't really care for them to be honest. Anyone who takes offence at a player name has some personal issues they need to deal with themselves first. Still, that's just my personal opinion.

While I do feel yours was likely a complaint lodged in malice rather than a genuine 'harassment' of others' if you're asked to rename a character, you simply do so... and not to a name which is likely to cause further troubles later on. That you were banned (temporarily or otherwise) indicates they probably looked at your mules names and realised you had made a habit of it. Lesson learned, move on.
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#23 May 25 2012 at 12:03 AM Rating: Good
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zoogelio wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Let's keep the political talk from this section guys. While it may have some relevance to the topic given the names the OP used, this isn't the section to start having discussions of country leaders and potential atrocities they have under their belts. That's more for the OoT and Asylum, so leave it at that. The reason that the OP's character names were GM'd have already been established, so there's no real need to talk about that more, at least not in =10.



Damn I wish I could rate you up XD.


Whenever Grover Cleveland gets mentioned, everything stops, EVERYTHING. I've seen it happen several times in any number of forums. True story. So if you ever want a thread to come to a complete stop, just mention Grover Cleveland. Haven't seen if it works in real life (dude walks into a loud bar, yells "Grover Cleveland" loudly, bar comes to a sudden silence, music comes to a screeching halt).


If you intend to start a row, Millard Fillmore is your best bet. Scholars just can't stop debating his legacy. Gets my blood boiling just thinking about his stupid looking face! Smiley: mad
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#24 May 25 2012 at 1:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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Glitterhands wrote:
I've played a lot of MMOs, with a lot of different and potentially offensive character names. Personally, I couldn't care less what anyone calls their character as long as it's not filled with curse words. I've never understood the naming policies of many online games, and don't really care for them to be honest. Anyone who takes offence at a player name has some personal issues they need to deal with themselves first. Still, that's just my personal opinion.


While perhaps a piss poor reason for some people who don't give a sh*t about the roleplaying aspect of MMOs, looking around and seeing celebrity names, net memes, or even the occasional play on words can detract from the experience for those who do care. I'm partially of the mind that it shows a lack of creativity when people can't bring themselves to attempt a name that might actually fit within the universe. Every name I've used in XI, be it my main or mules, has a meaning to me (though not to the point where I'd freak out if I can't use it like some did with server merges). And while some may consider it attempting to portray personal writings vicariously through other media, I'll gladly take my Seriha, Kalsena, Shanaleigh, Lutina, and various other names long before I'd consider xxxSephirohtxxx and the like. Basically, it's a first impression, not unlike how people actually choose to type and communicate toward others. And while your stance may translate to the equivalent of people needing to grow thicker skins, I'm of the mind they shouldn't have to. But that's just my inner white knight shining.
#25 May 25 2012 at 3:14 AM Rating: Good
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xypin wrote:
If you recognized that your character names might cause people to be offended, you should have named them something else from the start.

This game is huge. Even after playing on my same server for 9 years, I still see names I have never seen before. It is entirely possible that you were just incredibly lucky and those that would be offended never saw your name until now.

Agreed. If you dig your self a hole dont complain when some one tries to bury you in it.
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#26 May 25 2012 at 7:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Glitterhands wrote:
I've played a lot of MMOs, with a lot of different and potentially offensive character names. Personally, I couldn't care less what anyone calls their character as long as it's not filled with curse words.


I have the same opinion as you. I'm generally the live-and-let-live type.

Quote:
I've never understood the naming policies of many online games, and don't really care for them to be honest. Anyone who takes offense at a player name has some personal issues they need to deal with themselves first. Still, that's just my personal opinion.


As I mentioned the policies are there because the company wants to cover its own <Rear> and keep a certain semblance of atmosphere in their game world. It's not just the potential for other players being offended that's at work here, although that's obviously a big part of it.

Quote:
While I do feel yours was likely a complaint lodged in malice rather than a genuine 'harassment' of others' if you're asked to rename a character, you simply do so... and not to a name which is likely to cause further troubles later on. That you were banned (temporarily or otherwise) indicates they probably looked at your mules names and realised you had made a habit of it. Lesson learned, move on.


He definitely picked those names expressly FOR the shock value, so he's pretty much just reaping what he sowed. He may also wish to review his in-game and other online behavior to make sure he didn't give others a reason to want to go after him. IF he has been a jerk, this is a wake up call to stop being one. That's a big IF as I really don't know either way. IF he simply became the target of vindictive people, then I truly feel for him but they wouldn't have been able to attack him this way had he not given them the opening to do so.
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#27 May 25 2012 at 8:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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For example if you pick the name:

Douchesucker

Yeah, eventually someone will report you since no one in their right mind will ever name themselves like that if they're seriously set to playing an MMO. Most people go with popular names and add 1-8 xs to it because they're unoriginal and sephiroth is taken ontop of xsephiroth and xsephirothx, but purposefully naming yourself something offensive and getting upset you get reported...yeah you knew what you were doing.

So no, it's not "Tanaka's idea of harassing people", it's called make an appropriate name and not worry about being reported.

Edited, May 25th 2012 7:13am by Theonehio
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