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Voidwatch: Regarding Loot and Weaknesses/Storage of GearFollow

#1 Apr 17 2012 at 12:53 PM Rating: Good
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Rukkirii wrote:

Greetings,

Mocchi was able to speak to the dev. team to clarify a few things in regards to the Voidwatch Final Chapter regarding loot and weaknesses.

A player asked whether or not drop rates would be affected by Treasure Hunter, which caused some strategies to be changed around when compared to previous chapters. We can say that yes, Treasure Hunter does have an effect on loot drop rates and we plan on further increasing gear drop rates on top of this as well.

Some players suggested that we remove the low quality drops, or “useless” items, from the rewards at the end. We aren’t providing those lower tier rewards to cause players to be upset, and it is possible for us make it so those drops are removed and no item drops in their place instead.

However, if we were to replace certain items that are perceived as useless, with no drop players may feel that the loot system is bugged when they don’t receive any reward. As such, we would like to provide some sort of drop each time. Also, we have received many comments asking that the items dropped are improved slightly, but we have no plans to make any adjustments at the moment. We feel that we have to draw a line somewhere, or else the requests would begin to get out of hand. As such, we will maintain our current system.

We understand those that would like the drop rates of scrolls to be raised, but we consider gear to be the main aspect of rewards from the final chapter of Voidwatch. Since Arise and Meteor can be obtained through other content, we will maintain their current drop rates.

Weaknesses

Beastmaster

It seems like opinions are split on call beasts. Seems like there are bit more calls for Gerard to be used, but we would like to continue to receive feedback.

Puppetmaster

For PUP’s weakness, we’re considering using “Strobe” as their trigger.

What about implementing weakness regardless of specific pets, avatars or automaton frames?

We didn’t touch on this last time, but in terms of this function, it will be implemented. However, we have to consider if it is acceptable to place weaknesses on support jobs when it comes to adding weaknesses to SMNs and PUPs.


To explain what we are trying to accomplish: we want to offer an exploitable weakness from the player’s pet/avatar/automaton at a certain rate if they use a special ability. Basically, we’re not trying to make it so “certain abilities will always result in a weakness trigger.” The reason is that it would be too difficult to manage which abilities are used in which situation when also needing to consider weaknesses in battle.


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/22046-Voidwatch-Final-Chapter?p=305817#post305817

Rukkirii wrote:

Greetings!

Based on feedback we've been receiving, we're checking to see whether it's possible to add new slots for certain Voidwatch equipment (such as the sets of Ogier, Athos and Rubeus).

(There were other suggested additions, but when it comes to gear, there is a basic rule where they are categorized as a single set.)

When it comes to implementation timing, we'll offer more details as soon as we have them to share!

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/21905-Re-dev1104-Moogle-Porter-Service-Expansion?p=306084#post306084


Edited, Apr 27th 2012 3:06pm by Szabo
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#2 Apr 27 2012 at 1:06 PM Rating: Good
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Camate wrote:

Happy Friday everyone!

After looking into everyone’s feedback in regards to Voidwatch weaknesses, we will be proceeding with the below adjustments.

Red Mage

While there is a concern that red mages would lose the ability to exploit weaknesses that only they can execute, we have decided that there are more concerns with merit point spell limitations, so we will be removing the merit point spells similar to other jobs.

Ninja

As a majority of feedback we received had no problems with removing San-tier of elemental jutsus, we will also be following through with this.

Beastmaster

Since there were no real objections to this, we will be proceeding with being able to exploit weaknesses without relying on specific pets/abilities.

Puppetmaster
It seems like there was a large amount of feedback mentioning that Strobe would be good. However, instead of limiting this to Strobe, we would like to increase the amount of freedom, while still keeping the possibility of selecting Strobe.

The above content will be reflected in the May test server update and will begin with the final chapter for now.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/22046-Voidwatch-Final-Chapter?p=310039#post310039
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#3 Apr 27 2012 at 3:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Since Arise and Meteor can be obtained through other content, we will maintain their current drop rate.
Hmm.....I didn't know those two spells can be found elsewhere. Legion maybe? Its nice too see they keep tweaking the proc system to make it better. Now if only they would cut the Blue Mage trigger set in half. If that happened I might actually give VW a try since that's the only reason I wont do it.
#4 Apr 27 2012 at 10:36 PM Rating: Good
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Maybe you should fix your drop algorithm.

I'm 0/275 on Kaggen body. But I got Phasmida Belts #4, 5 and 6 in the last 3 runs I just finished.
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#5 Apr 28 2012 at 12:49 AM Rating: Good
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Since Arise and Meteor can be obtained through other content, we will maintain their current drop rates.
Interesting. Shame there's no further information on this, because as far as I'm aware Voidwatch is the only known way to obtain those scrolls. The irony of this is that even if it is obtainable from other content, it's likely just as rare and hard to obtain, making a group-cast spell like Meteor all but rendered useless even once you learn it.

Arise is bascially just a dolled up Reraise/Raise III. I'm in no rush to chase it down yet, even if the weakness duration is reduced. It seems a bit unimpressive considering it's a level 99 spell, and should have been made more powerful considering its obvious rarity.

Quote:
Basically, we’re not trying to make it so “certain abilities will always result in a weakness trigger.” The reason is that it would be too difficult to manage which abilities are used in which situation when also needing to consider weaknesses in battle
To me the voidwatch weakness system feels a bit arbitrary anyway. Abyssea might have excluded a good few jobs, but the weakness system was pretty much spot on, with the time and day determining enemy weaknesses. Personally I would've preferred to see an expanded version of that, rather than this random weakness selection we get.

My main issue with this is that if the weakness trigger happens to be something they are outright immune to, you're pretty much stuck. It's times like this I wish Red Mage could land enfeebles on those otherwise 'immune' mobs, not only to strengthen its role but also to bypass this limitation in VW.

Quote:
We feel that we have to draw a line somewhere, or else the requests would begin to get out of hand. As such, we will maintain our current system.
All we're after is a shot at actually getting something for all our hard work. The drop rates are beyond terrible, and the junk that drops serves only to remind us that we've effectively wasted our time. At least with ye olde HNMs the loot went into a pool so the linkshells involved could distribute wealth or items to those who both needed them and could use them.

Still, at least they're obviously aware that people are disgruntled about more than a few things. While I doubt we'll see any major changes, it's nice to know the Devs are at least listening to criticism rather than ignoring it completely. Either way, my enthusiasm for Voidwatch has ebbed to an all time low after repeat runs with nothing to show for it. The only reason I bother turning up for a run nowadays is because no one is doing anything different.
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#6 Apr 30 2012 at 9:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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If they're really going to insist on preventing us from distributing the items to people who can actually use them or don't already have them, they should really modify the drop algorithm to prevent such horrible runs of bad luck. I've killed nearly 400 Akvans now and still don't have Heka's. I've gotten 6 bullets and lord knows how many Sceamols. I know melees who have killed 20 Akvans and have received 3 Heka's but no bullet. It shouldn't be too hard to simply keep track of how many of a certain NM a player has killed, and as they kill more, increase the drop rate for items they haven't yet received. This would at least slowly increase the odds as they killed the same NM over and over. After 400 Akvans, I really just don't have the energy to do any more. As much as I want that body, it literally sickens me at the stomach to think about killing Akvan again.
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#7 Apr 30 2012 at 10:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Pergatory wrote:
It shouldn't be too hard to simply keep track of how many of a certain NM a player has killed, and as they kill more, increase the drop rate for items they haven't yet received.


That makes entirely too much sense. Especially with Mr. Balance at the helm again.


Oh yeah, 0/300+ now, but now I got a 7th phasmida belt. Totally balanced.
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#8 Apr 30 2012 at 10:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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TheBarrister wrote:
Pergatory wrote:
It shouldn't be too hard to simply keep track of how many of a certain NM a player has killed, and as they kill more, increase the drop rate for items they haven't yet received.

That makes entirely too much sense. Especially with Mr. Balance at the helm again.

Given the kind of responses we've been seeing as of late from Camate, I would expect to read something like, "We could do that, but we would have to increase the NMs difficulty, add a cool down time to fighting the NM, or decrease current drop rates to compensate."
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#9 Apr 30 2012 at 5:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's like they don't get that going 0/hundreds or thousands on a item but getting 100 mahogany logs/crystal petrifacts/<insert other unwanted item> is considered a complete and utter failure in their customer's minds.

You read it here SE. We do not consider droprates in VW to be a success. Just add 5,000 gil and give me no items since this is what I normally get from a VWNM. Please note that I have nearly nothing to actually spend my gil on since I'm really trying for only rare/ex items right now.
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#10 Apr 30 2012 at 5:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Some players suggested that we remove the low quality drops, or “useless” items, from the rewards at the end. We aren’t providing those lower tier rewards to cause players to be upset, and it is possible for us make it so those drops are removed and no item drops in their place instead.

However, if we were to replace certain items that are perceived as useless, with no drop players may feel that the loot system is bugged when they don’t receive any reward.


So basically, it's an attempted sham to try to hide how unrewarding the activity typically is. What a shocker.

Don't think anyone's falling for it by this point though, so yeah, you guys really ought to just can the crap drops and make them just drop plain old gil in their place. It's not like they'd be screwing the economy; most of this stuff is going straight to the npc anyway.
#11 Apr 30 2012 at 5:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Voidwatch should have been implemented with a Trophy Exchange system similar to the ones found in Abyssea. In this version any NM from that tier you get a trophy for and after X amount of trophies, you can exchange them for any gear from that Tier.

Jeuno Tier I:
White Stratum Trophy: 6th Class x50

Jeuno Tier II:
White Stratum Trophy: 5th Class x75

Jeuno Tier III:
White Stratum Trophy: 4th Class x 100

Jeuno Tier IV
White Stratum Trophy: 3th Class x 110

Jeuno Tier V
White Stratum Trophy: 2nd Class x 120

Jeuno Tier VI
White Stratum Trophy: 1st Class x 125

So after 100 wins against Pil, you can exchange 100 trophies for Toci's Harness. Or, each Tier can have their own value for each piece of gear within that Tier. For example:
Heka's Kalasiris could require 100+ trophies while Phasmida Belt only requires 75 trophies.
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#12 Apr 30 2012 at 6:20 PM Rating: Good
Why the heck would they choose strobe over flashbulb?
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#13 Apr 30 2012 at 6:33 PM Rating: Excellent
Glitterhands wrote:
Quote:
Since Arise and Meteor can be obtained through other content, we will maintain their current drop rates.
Interesting. Shame there's no further information on this, because as far as I'm aware Voidwatch is the only known way to obtain those scrolls. The irony of this is that even if it is obtainable from other content, it's likely just as rare and hard to obtain, making a group-cast spell like Meteor all but rendered useless even once you learn it.


Anyone try Taisaijin? :p
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#14 Apr 30 2012 at 8:06 PM Rating: Good
Brokenwheel wrote:
Glitterhands wrote:
Quote:
Since Arise and Meteor can be obtained through other content, we will maintain their current drop rates.
Interesting. Shame there's no further information on this, because as far as I'm aware Voidwatch is the only known way to obtain those scrolls. The irony of this is that even if it is obtainable from other content, it's likely just as rare and hard to obtain, making a group-cast spell like Meteor all but rendered useless even once you learn it.


Anyone try Taisaijin? :p


Now because you said that, every server will be camping it JUST to check v_v lol
#15 May 10 2012 at 3:28 PM Rating: Good
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Camate wrote:

Hello!

As we have finally reached the final chapter for Voidwatch, starting with the upcoming version update we will be implementing adjustments focusing on making this content more enjoyable.

Adjustment content

-Upcoming version update (scheduled for mid-May)
-Adjustments to drop rates and number of drops from Provenance Watcher
-Crystal Petrifact stack quantity increased from 12 to 99

Next version update

- Application of the weakness system of the final chapter to all the other chapters
-Implementation of ticket system for specific items
-Implementation of a system where weakening monsters is possible through paying a fee (Excluding the final chapter)
 
Objective

As I mentioned at the top, we will be making this content more enjoyable, but to go into a bit more detail on this, the idea is centralized around those who are coming in late and did not do this content as it came out with everyone as well as those players who cannot log in during peak times.


Specifically, we are planning to increase the options to counter situations such as not being able to participate when there is a shout due to progression issues, lacking members to defeat a monster, and the strong desire to obtain a certain item.


This post was intended to serve as an outline for the adjustments and the objective behind them, but we will be bringing you specific details for each adjustment in the near future.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/22046-Voidwatch-Final-Chapter?p=313728#post313728
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#16 May 10 2012 at 3:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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I sincerely hope they don't run with the ticket system they initially proposed.
#17 May 10 2012 at 5:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Bingo, exactly like I predicted.

They waited until the end and everyone had been drawn into the time sink before lightening it up. Now that many of the big groups are on crystal dragon their making the previous chapters easier for people not in big / capable VWNM groups. Also notice how they said a way to make the NM weaker but not on the crystal dragon, their basically nerfing the other NMs to make them more accessible. I suspect their gonna ninja boost the drop rates of the T3 ~ T5 (and thus the ticket creation rates) items and just not tell anyone.
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#18 May 11 2012 at 5:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Camate wrote:
-Crystal Petrifact stack quantity increased from 12 to 99

Seriously, what kind of brain fart did they have that they couldn't realize that Petrifacts needed to stack to 99 from the start? It's a seal-like item, geez.

At least I made a point of avoiding VW other than for clears. Even then, I've still had to pass on clear shouts because it takes about half an hour per fight and there are usually 6 fights per PUG. Not a good idea to start a 3 hour run when you need to get to sleep in one hour.

Edited, May 11th 2012 7:54am by Elwynbelwyn
#19 May 11 2012 at 11:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Dumb question, why are crystal petrifacts even needed? It seems like all I get now is these. I realize that they are exchangeable for stones to fight Prov. Watcher. So...what?
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#20 May 11 2012 at 2:19 PM Rating: Good
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Gotta have some kind of bottleneck to actually keep people from getting Meteor and the like. :/
#21 May 11 2012 at 2:45 PM Rating: Decent
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They are extremely easy to obtain and Kupofried's corundum still build up once per day anyway.
#22 May 11 2012 at 3:16 PM Rating: Excellent
It's there in the same way that Voiddust is there for Voidstones. If you do Provenance enough that the single stone you get a day isn't enough to keep up with how many you burn, you're going to want some way of obtaining more, and it keeps the older Voidwatch fights relevant for both crystal petrifacts and the key item petrifacts.
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#23 May 11 2012 at 4:51 PM Rating: Good
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I can sell Voiddust on the AH (and I have been), but petrifacts are Ex.

I would happily sell petrifacts so that the gearhounds could spam their low drop rate events.
#24 May 12 2012 at 11:52 AM Rating: Decent
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Elwynbelwyn wrote:
I can sell Voiddust on the AH (and I have been), but petrifacts are Ex.

I would happily sell petrifacts so that the gearhounds could spam their low drop rate events.


I would too.

Tbh though, you only get petrifacts in regular supply if you are spamming a low drop rate event, e.g., VW.
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#25 May 12 2012 at 7:46 PM Rating: Good
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TheBarrister wrote:
Elwynbelwyn wrote:
I can sell Voiddust on the AH (and I have been), but petrifacts are Ex.

I would happily sell petrifacts so that the gearhounds could spam their low drop rate events.

I would too.

Tbh though, you only get petrifacts in regular supply if you are spamming a low drop rate event, e.g., VW.

I've only been doing tier clears (through Jeuno T1 so far) and I already have 13 of them. And I think one of those runs was before petrifacts were added. I'd just rather get gil and my inventory slot back.
#26 May 16 2012 at 8:44 PM Rating: Good
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Mizuki_Ito wrote:

Hello, Ito here!

I would like to reveal which adjustments (from the proposed adjustments in the previous post) we plan on implementing in the next update.

Please read through this when you have some time to spare, since it’s rather long.

Objectives

As stated in my previous post, the overall goal is to make the game easier to play. We are also focusing heavily on addressing some critical issues.
We will add more ways to overcome situations such as:

“There are shouts for content, but I can’t participate because I haven’t progressed enough.”
“I am trying everything I can, but I can’t defeat the enemy. Only if I had 1 or 2 more party members…”
“I really want this item!”

caused by the following issues:
-Players were late to participate in content during its peak time
-Players are unable to log in during peak hours
 
Apply the weakness system which is currently only used in the final chapter to all routes

Based on feedback regarding the battle in the final chapter, we will apply the following adjustments to all routes.
Opponent’s attack/magic attack is reduced by triggering weakness
Elimination/addition/consolidation of weaknesses triggers
Change weakness triggers for jug pets and automatons to all special abilities.

※The 3rd category is currently not applied to the final chapter
 
Ticket system for specific items
Players are frustrated with the fact that players are unable to give away duplicate items to other players who want the item. As such, we have come up with a way to give players who were unable to obtain the item a better chance.
 
Eligible items

The following are the eligible items:

Mextli Harness/Anhur Robe/Fazheluo Radiant Mail/Toci’s Harness/Heka’s Kalasiris/Mekira Meikogai/Murasamemaru/Aytanri/Ephemeron/Coruscanti/Asteria/Borealis/Delphinius

There are 2 reasons these items were chosen:
1. All other gear items are relatively easy to obtain, so we would like players to obtain these items on their own.
2. The more items that can be ticketed, the more inventory congestion becomes a problem.
 
Ticketing

-Ticketing can only be performed when items are taken out of the personal treasure box
-When ticketing occurs, the character who is ticketing is announced and the ticket goes to the loot pool
-Tickets are different for each type of gear
-To obtain items via tickets, 3 of the same type of ticket must be turned in
-Tickets cannot be traded to other players
We separated tickets into different types to avoid players only farming areas with the easiest monsters to defeat or obtaining items from NMs that would not usually drop them.

Initially, we were considering allowing tickets to be traded or sold, but if this was implemented, tickets would be used for profit rather than to help other players. Since this does not fall in line with our original objective, in order to make it so tickets easily go to those players who really want an item and continuously participate, we have decided to allow only the members who participate in battle to transfer tickets.

To compensate, we were able to significantly reduce the number of necessary tickets to exchange for equipment and have set the number stated above.

Additionally, by having a the system announce that someone created a ticket, the player who created the ticket can then easily notify other members that they are free to lot on it or chose who to give it to.
 
Implementation of a system where weakening monsters is possible through paying a fee (Excluding the final chapter)

In order to aid those players to get past portions of content they are stuck on and also to make it possible to take on these battles with fewer party members, we will be implementing the below.

-Enfeebling items can be purchase with gil.
-Item purchases will be limited to a one-time use for a given period of time.
-It will be possible to stack enfeeble items.
-It will not be possible to trade enfeeble items to other players.
-Enfeeble items need to be traded to the Planar Rift prior to Voidwatch battles and converted into a key item.
- It will be possible to possess multiple key items.
-Whether you want to enfeeble the monster will be selectable when spawning the monster.
-If you choose to enfeeble the monster, the level of enfeebling can be selected.
-Enfeebling reduces the level of the monster.
-The amount of levels that can be lowered on a monster via key items will change based on zone.
We do not plan on making the cost for these enfeeble items extremely high. While it won’t be at a level of extreme ease either, we plan on making it somewhat in the middle.

There will also be limitations on the number purchasable in a given amount of time and though it will be slightly on the expensive side, there will not be any other different effects attributed to these items such as drop rate enhancements, etc.
By using multiple enfeeble items at the same time, it will be possible to lower the level of the monster and it will be possible to defeat the earlier chapter monsters with less than a single party.

We’ve set the items in this way in order to prevent making it critical to have for battles and also to prevent extremely efficient parties from battling the same monsters over and over again.


The above are the plans and adjustment planned scheduled for next version update.

We will first be implementing this on the test server and then perform the actual version update.
After this is complete, we will continue to make adjustments based on play conditions and feedback.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/22046-Voidwatch-Final-Chapter?p=315884#post315884

Edited, May 16th 2012 10:47pm by Szabo
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#27 May 17 2012 at 4:28 AM Rating: Good
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Szabo wrote:
Mizuki_Ito wrote:

Ticket system for specific items
Players are frustrated with the fact that players are unable to give away duplicate items to other players who want the item. As such, we have come up with a way to give players who were unable to obtain the item a better chance.
 
Eligible items

The following are the eligible items:

Mextli Harness/Anhur Robe/Fazheluo Radiant Mail/Toci’s Harness/Heka’s Kalasiris/Mekira Meikogai/Murasamemaru/Aytanri/Ephemeron/Coruscanti/Asteria/Borealis/Delphinius

There are 2 reasons these items were chosen:
1. All other gear items are relatively easy to obtain, so we would like players to obtain these items on their own.
2. The more items that can be ticketed, the more inventory congestion becomes a problem.
 
Ticketing

-Ticketing can only be performed when items are taken out of the personal treasure box
-When ticketing occurs, the character who is ticketing is announced and the ticket goes to the loot pool
-Tickets are different for each type of gear
-To obtain items via tickets, 3 of the same type of ticket must be turned in
-Tickets cannot be traded to other players
We separated tickets into different types to avoid players only farming areas with the easiest monsters to defeat or obtaining items from NMs that would not usually drop them.

Initially, we were considering allowing tickets to be traded or sold, but if this was implemented, tickets would be used for profit rather than to help other players. Since this does not fall in line with our original objective, in order to make it so tickets easily go to those players who really want an item and continuously participate, we have decided to allow only the members who participate in battle to transfer tickets.

To compensate, we were able to significantly reduce the number of necessary tickets to exchange for equipment and have set the number stated above.

Additionally, by having a the system announce that someone created a ticket, the player who created the ticket can then easily notify other members that they are free to lot on it or chose who to give it to.
 

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/22046-Voidwatch-Final-Chapter?p=315884#post315884

Edited, May 16th 2012 10:47pm by Szabo

Seriously? Only T4 cities and T3 jeuno body armor and the HQ weapons that never drop?

And that system is just encouraging drama and ninja lotting and people D2'ing or kicking others who beat their lot.
#28 May 17 2012 at 11:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Is this ticket system so brilliant that I simply can't comprehend how wonderful it will be, or is it really as stupid and convoluted as it looks?
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#29 May 17 2012 at 12:10 PM Rating: Decent
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I think it's a beautiful solution. I'm actually rather impressed. Bravo, SE! Too bad it wasn't implemented sooner.
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#30 May 17 2012 at 12:17 PM Rating: Good
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Camiie wrote:
Is this ticket system so brilliant that I simply can't comprehend how wonderful it will be, or is it really as stupid and convoluted as it looks?
If I'm understanding it correctly, it's pretty awful. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only way to get a ticket seems to be if someone in the alliance already has the item and decides to turn the thing into a ticket. Then you have to lot against the alliance on the ticket. Am I reading it correctly?
#31 May 17 2012 at 12:49 PM Rating: Good
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AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
Camiie wrote:
Is this ticket system so brilliant that I simply can't comprehend how wonderful it will be, or is it really as stupid and convoluted as it looks?
If I'm understanding it correctly, it's pretty awful. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only way to get a ticket seems to be if someone in the alliance already has the item and decides to turn the thing into a ticket. Then you have to lot against the alliance on the ticket. Am I reading it correctly?



Pretty much. I also read it as you can specify someone to lot it, but that'll probably be a LS type thing, opening the door for point system VW, akin to the dynamis of old.
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#32 May 17 2012 at 8:07 PM Rating: Excellent
thegodofwar wrote:
AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
Camiie wrote:
Is this ticket system so brilliant that I simply can't comprehend how wonderful it will be, or is it really as stupid and convoluted as it looks?
If I'm understanding it correctly, it's pretty awful. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only way to get a ticket seems to be if someone in the alliance already has the item and decides to turn the thing into a ticket. Then you have to lot against the alliance on the ticket. Am I reading it correctly?



Pretty much. I also read it as you can specify someone to lot it, but that'll probably be a LS type thing, opening the door for point system VW, akin to the dynamis of old.




My favorite part was them deciding it cant be tradable. So someone could go 2/3 on tickets then get the actual item in the chest and have nothing better to do with the tickets then toss em. This system is almost working in full circle, causing the same problem twice.
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#33 May 18 2012 at 5:02 AM Rating: Good
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Pergatory wrote:
I think it's a beautiful solution. I'm actually rather impressed. Bravo, SE! Too bad it wasn't implemented sooner.


What about it makes you feel that way?
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#34 May 18 2012 at 5:20 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
My favorite part was them deciding it cant be tradable. So someone could go 2/3 on tickets then get the actual item in the chest and have nothing better to do with the tickets then toss em. This system is almost working in full circle, causing the same problem twice.


Hadn't thought of that. That's... really dumb
#35 May 18 2012 at 9:19 AM Rating: Good
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Camiie wrote:
What about it makes you feel that way?

That it addresses my primary qualm: watching the rare drops go completely to waste on people who won't even use them, or already have them, meanwhile I'm 0/400 and counting.

Of course I would prefer a loot system that puts everything in the pool just like other events of the game and lets players distribute loot in the way they choose. Failing that though, at least items won't be completely wasted now. That's what really pissed me off.

I had a friend who frequently helped me kill Akvan. He's now gotten 7 Heka's and thrown away each one because he can't use it. If this ticket system was implemented sooner, I'd have had Heka's a long time ago.

I didn't like the idea of buyable tickets because then I'd never win any from doing the fight. I'd just end up perusing Ru'Lude for tickets to get my Heka's, which kind of goes against the spirit of Voidwatch. So I'm glad they decided to make them Ex and reduce the number required.

Edited, May 18th 2012 2:30pm by Pergatory
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#36 May 18 2012 at 9:30 AM Rating: Good
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Pergatory wrote:
Camiie wrote:
What about it makes you feel that way?

That it addresses my primary qualm: watching the rare drops go completely to waste on people who won't even use them, or already have them, meanwhile I'm 0/400 and counting.

Of course I would prefer a loot system that puts everything in the pool just like other events of the game and lets players distribute loot in the way they choose.

Which could still result in rare drops going completely to waste on people who won't even use them.
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#37 May 18 2012 at 11:31 AM Rating: Good
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Yes, but then those people only have themselves to blame for that, instead of the game.
#38 May 18 2012 at 11:57 AM Rating: Good
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Pergatory wrote:
I had a friend who frequently helped me kill Akvan. He's not gotten 7 Heka's and thrown away each one because he can't use it. If this ticket system was implemented sooner, I'd have had Heka's a long time ago.
There's no game mechanic that would allow your friend to give you the ticket directly. Either everybody in the ally would have a chance to lot or you'd have to covertly disband while he gave you your ticket. I guess that could work. Still a stupid system since you need your friend (who has the Heka's and yet continues to do Akvan only to help you out) to always be there. I mean it's better than it is now, in the same way that 1.000001 is more than 1.

Edited, May 18th 2012 8:00am by detlef
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#39 May 18 2012 at 3:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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Major Whoosh again by SE. Players aren't upset that they can't gift items to others. They are upset because they themselves are fighting things hundreds, possibly thousands (anyone have examples of that? because the highest I am is 0/424) of times and not getting anything but items they have already gotten. Are they concerned that others might benefit and would possibly like to give away? Sure, there is always a little bit of that, even for strangers in PUGs. However, their major concern that I share with anyone in this situation is that they are frustrated that they have often fought that particular monster to the near exclusion of any other content and have nothing to show for it but irrelevant, placebo drops. Meanwhile, people who doesn't even need the item (e.g., a career mage getting a a melee drop; a career melee getting a mage drop) or have barely done a monster, come along and get something they do not care about and/or extremely lucky.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with people getting things they don't want. Or people getting extremely lucky.

What I do have a problem with is a system that is designed to punish random people because of extremely bad luck.

SE - your VW drop algorithm makes me an upset customer.

You should have realized what made Abyssea a success with 99% of the playerbase.

At a bare minimum and perhaps the only thing that needs to be done is that SE should create a learning engine that builds a non-luck factor (e.g., reroll) into the drop calculation for people who have fought something significantly more than the norm.

I fully realize that Lobi will probably quote the bible of carrot/stick mechanics of MMO design to me. Don't care.



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#40 May 18 2012 at 4:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think the biggest issue is that the game doesn't track how many times you have done a fight. If you went with a group of 18 people to a fight where items drop to the whole alliance's common treasure pool, sooner or later your lot would win, or no one else would need the item, or you'd go with a group that was based on points and your turn would come up, or a merc group would sell you the drop. The more options like this are available on a mob, the fewer fights are necessary for any individual person to get a drop from that mob.

With this drop system, you're competing with both the small odds of the drop coming to your alliance at all, plus the small odds of your personal treasure pool being the one that it drops to. It's just too random.

Edited, May 18th 2012 5:40pm by AshOnMyTomatoes
#41 May 18 2012 at 6:00 PM Rating: Good
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Dunno if this has been mention or not but instead of this stupid ticket system, make it like the trophy system in abyysea. Each nm you kill you get a tier trophy. So eventually you would have earn enough trophies for whatever item you want.
#42 May 20 2012 at 6:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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TheBarrister wrote:
Major Whoosh again by SE. Players aren't upset that they can't gift items to others. They are upset because they themselves are fighting things hundreds, possibly thousands (anyone have examples of that? because the highest I am is 0/424) of times and not getting anything but items they have already gotten.



I will say I think parts of the player base made a mistake when they said, "At least let me be able to gift it to a friend or put it in the treasure pool." This is... sorta kinda... what some people were asking for. It's just been done in SE's typically kludgey way.

What they should have done was have the duplicate item converted to a ticket that the receiving player can exchange for something he does want. No selling. No trading with other players. No putting it in the group treasure pool. The idea of personal treasure stays in place, and the player gets something for his trouble. KISS. Keep It Simple SE.

Edited, May 20th 2012 9:07am by Camiie
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#43 May 21 2012 at 1:44 PM Rating: Good
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Mizuki Ito wrote:


Thanks for all of your feedback on the ticket system. I’d like to give some follow-up information regarding this. (I’ve actually been discussing this in meetings.)

After looking into the specifications for this ticket system, as a result of continuous experimenting and testing while working on the feature for placing tickets into the treasure chest, we reached a conclusion that there would be a chance that a market tickets would develop even if it wasn’t possible to trade them and regardless of what system was adopted.

With this said, there is no meaning behind making them untradeable.

I believe there are pros and cons for both sides, but I am thinking that the best result would be to relegate this to you all and change it to a system where there is higher chance to help others and still make it so you can give tickets to others free of charge.

However, by making the tickets tradable, we will be changing the system so that more tickets are required to obtain equipment. It will also be necessary to fight the monster that drops the equipment and receive the title for defeat.

The below are the planned changes:

-Tickets will be made tradable.
-Two requirements will need to be fulfilled in order to exchange tickets for equipment.
-Must possess 5 of the same type of ticket.
(As we are currently revisiting this, there is a possibility that this number changes.)
- Must have the title proving defeat of the monster that drops the respective piece of equipment.

We also received a lot of feedback regarding the possibility of having a different item be created when you change a piece of equipment into a ticket.

This is a nice idea for both the ticket giver and the receiver creating a win-win situation, but since we ultimately decided to make tickets tradable, we felt that even without this idea the tickets will find their way to those who want them, so we decided to put this off for now.


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/22046-Voidwatch-Final-Chapter?p=317844#post317844
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#44 May 21 2012 at 2:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Szabo wrote:
Mizuki Ito wrote:


Thanks for all of your feedback on the ticket system. I’d like to give some follow-up information regarding this. (I’ve actually been discussing this in meetings.)

After looking into the specifications for this ticket system, as a result of continuous experimenting and testing while working on the feature for placing tickets into the treasure chest, we reached a conclusion that there would be a chance that a market tickets would develop even if it wasn’t possible to trade them and regardless of what system was adopted.

With this said, there is no meaning behind making them untradeable.

I believe there are pros and cons for both sides, but I am thinking that the best result would be to relegate this to you all and change it to a system where there is higher chance to help others and still make it so you can give tickets to others free of charge.

However, by making the tickets tradable, we will be changing the system so that more tickets are required to obtain equipment. It will also be necessary to fight the monster that drops the equipment and receive the title for defeat.

The below are the planned changes:

-Tickets will be made tradable.
-Two requirements will need to be fulfilled in order to exchange tickets for equipment.
-Must possess 5 of the same type of ticket.
(As we are currently revisiting this, there is a possibility that this number changes.)
- Must have the title proving defeat of the monster that drops the respective piece of equipment.

We also received a lot of feedback regarding the possibility of having a different item be created when you change a piece of equipment into a ticket.

This is a nice idea for both the ticket giver and the receiver creating a win-win situation, but since we ultimately decided to make tickets tradable, we felt that even without this idea the tickets will find their way to those who want them, so we decided to put this off for now.


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/22046-Voidwatch-Final-Chapter?p=317844#post317844


I thought it was apparent these tickets could still be merc'ed....I am shocked and happy that SE realized this before it left the showroom.

This tradeoff (3 to 5 tickets being need, the need to actually fight the mob) doesnt make this system sound too bad - in fact, I am happy with this proposed change. It now may be easier to get help if the person has a shot at getting a ticket they can sell, as opposed to skipping the shout / run entirely because they have the item that particular VW drops.

I still wish they expanded it to more items, though.

Edited, May 21st 2012 4:25pm by ManifestOfKujata
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