Man, I forgot my Igqira Tiara..Follow

So last night I was playing with some friends getting some +2 Items in A-Konch.

I was building our Azure up solo'ing Blm/brd, and mashed the Bind Macro with most my Enfeebling gear on it, and realized I had left some pieces behind in MH. And it got me thinking..

Back when I solo'ed blm on pets and pudding pre abyssea days, enfeebling gear with so very helpful landing those sleep, binds etc. Now I rarely see people Macro'ing these pieces like I used too, but maybe I am not catching it.

My question to you is, in this stage of post Abyssea endgame, are you using those precious inventory spaces keeping those Enfeebling + pieces we all used to love/need?

Or is it pretty much whatever at this point, and if it resists you, it is immune to the spell in the first place?


Since I am trying to refocus my playtime back to BLM, I am curious. Inv space is at a premium at this point.


Thanks :)

I still carry my enfeebling set around, but I don't really need it. My enfeebling is capped and very rarely am I resisted. I do use it in VW situations to ensure I land a proc, like blind. But in VW, you rarely want to enfeeble the mob in case it comes up as a proc later. Nothing worse than waiting for something to wear just so you can proc it.

Since I play mage jobs almost exclusively, I am looking to consolidate and have 1 enfeebling set I can wear on all jobs, instead of carrying around JSE other than AFv3.

A few of my "unique to one job" pieces got chucked into storage, but I still have most of my enfeebling set on BLM, as well as the whole +hMP set that has been pretty much retired on all the other jobs. (I call it my Smurf outfit, since the oracle's cap, wizard's coat+1, and Nisse slacks totally make a Tarutaru look decidedly Smurflike.)

If nothing else, the alternate outfit configurations keep me from being a total clone to everyone else on that job, especially since I don't run Spellcast (but do run BMN) and thus won't end up in my idling outfit automatically. There's been a few times I've warped back to Jeuno and realized I was still wearing my Igqira Tiara, wizard's coat+1, and Nashira seraweels. A quit hit of my Empyrean resting gear outfit fixes it, but I've gotten some surprised /checks from that.

I still use my enfeebling set. It doesn't matter so much as it used to, at least not right at the moment. But SE says they're going to remove a lot of the NM's immunities to various enfeebling spells. And I do expect that there will eventually be content again where the ability to stick an enfeeble will be both challenging and helpful.

One thing to consider when looking at having a specific enfeebling set is the difference between that and what you can put together from gear you're already carrying. There is a LOT more to choose from now, and you may well have some of it. As an example, at 75, most BLMs nuked in an Igqira Weskit, which was useless for enfeebling. Wizard's coat/+1 was absolutely essential gear, with enfeeb skill +10/12.

At first, I was going to show how an AH BLM can use a Teal Saio for both nuking and enfeebling, and have "good enough" performance. But then I realized that Praeco Doublets are down to 20k. The doublet has INT+15, MND+15, and m.acc +5, which is a fantastic enfeebling piece and will out-nuke a saio. An AH BLM should probably just wear that and forget about the rest. A well-geared BLM will be nuking in Goetia Coat +2, with m.acc +11, and may decide that is good enough for enfeebling as well, although the doublet is clearly superior.

There is one other consideration here... BLMs still occasionally sleep things. Sometimes things that are beating on us. And enfeebling skill gives us one thing that m.acc and INT/MND do not: fewer spell interruptions. Manawall makes that less important than it used to be, but it's still something you might want to think about. Is it something you want to carry extra gear for? Probably not.

I also have my full enfeeble set pretty much intact. Because of the point out that macc can be better than skill (and I have full +2 on blm) I killed my +1 af shirt on all my enfeeble macros just now. (It's still in the resting set however.)

Don't know if I'll get rid of my iggy tiara or enfeeb torque or nash pants any time soon. Tho if I'm still overdoing it I may get rid of the tiara too for space reasons; the rest of my enfeeb set I can use on whm too if needed. :) The fact that I can use those pants on both whm and blm is why I went for nash pants in the first place. Lucky all but torque and tiara of that set I can store on the porter moogle. :)

Edited, Mar 2nd 2012 9:19am by maryadavies

I've been pondering a way to revamp the debuff system, namely to emphasize RDM as its specialist, but it'd just kinda feel like pissing in the wind with the unlikelihood of SE considering what I had in mind.

I think he's being sarcastic...

Increase the attack speed, casting speed, movement speed, etc. of mobs such that you can't stand to do a fight without slow, para, addle or silence, and gravity. And make it both possible, yet reasonably difficult to land those enfeebles such that you really want to have a RDM there to do it. Boom, RDM has a purpose.

Yes, I understand that I basically just advocated making fights *harder*, so that a RDM is needed to bring them back down in difficulty to what's reasonable. I understand that some people are not going to like that suggestion, but I see it as a better form of challenge than making mobs into complete a**holes that one-shot alliances and/or require various gimmicks to beat.

I'll humor you despite the snipe, but overall, it's a bit drastic given SE's current state of do-as-little-as-possible.

Basically revamp all enfeebles to function like DNC steps or TH building with RDM being the only class able to level them up through repeat casts. Something like Slow I would be changed to a default 30% rate with Enfeebling/MND/MACC just affecting accuracy. Landing another Slow I again would bump it up to level 2, or 40% potency. Slow II would start on level 2, but going Slow I then Slow II would take it to level 3, but at a diminished percentage like 43%, up to however many levels SE deems appropriate until 60%, but I'm thinking anywhere between 10-15.

Merit spells would all become scroll learned, their current levels instead functioning as level jumps. Slow I with 5 merits in the Slow category could net a Slow level 6 effect, while Slow II would be 7. Gear that directly enhances enfeebling magic would be a default +1 level. Also, landing a "level up" would add a short amount to the debuff's current duration, that way you're not spending so much time to build it up just for it to poof. Saboteur would still retain its doubling property in this process, only in regards to the debuff level.

Just for you, though, I do want to include a melee aspect to this through the form of a tiered job trait I'd simply call Coup de Grace. 3 tiers, each time you WS, every debuff on the mob is leveled up by whatever tier level you possess. This would allow a RDM to level up a wider array of debuffs more quickly and with greater MP efficiency. Additionally, Enspells can receive a small chance to level up any debuffs of their respective element on-strike, T1s being 1 level while T2s would be 2 on success.

Of course, there's still the matter of enfeebling spells needing greater representation if it is to be the role and combination debuffs could also be a consideration (like splitting Gravity's -Movement and -EVA as an easy example, but consider something like Bad Breath). I'd also like to see Break be a bit different than Stun, instead incapacitating a mob for a longer duration with a potent -DT% applied to curb kiting or zerg exploits. And I know you sh*t your pants the last time I mentioned Dischord, but the ability to affect a mob's level is something unique RDM could assuredly use on HNM-tier prey.

And no, you'll never shake me from wanting the class to be more melee friendly despite how "fine" you think it is and how that status otherwise translates to community neglect and scorn. Regardless of the fun you, GG, and Cid like to have at my expense, it needs higher utility and some advantages in absence of raw damage. What you alluded to attempts to offer that, just as what I noted above with CdG and Enspells also tries to do.

and your solution (the increase potency on casting more spells) to the problem of MP cost and recast timers is to reward casting the same spell numerous times. Isn't that an even more dependent on MP and recast.

Again the whole foundation of enfeebling magic is crap. You can stack as much as you want on the top end, but if the spells do not land (regardless how much MACC) and the spells do not have a meaningful impact (they do not disrupt TP spam) then it is a fluff addition.

Until Enfeebling Magic is actually useful and beneficial to a group then it will always be considered not needed.

New ideas are fun and good to discuss, but just like when we argued over curing magic changes (you wanted a new type of spell that was like a cure 4.5 iirc) the core of the issue must be fixed first. The easiest way to knock out two birds with one stone is to base the adjustments on enfeebling magic, providing potency, and actually being a factor in spells landing.(get rid of outright immunity, and base the landing of spells on fractional resists like elemental magic)

Once the system works again, then you add the fluff on top.

Edited, Mar 4th 2012 11:18am by rdmcandie

Edited, Mar 4th 2012 11:19am by rdmcandie

You are missing the point.

Enfeebling itself does not function.

Adding new stuff to a job is great, but all it changes is that jobs ability to operate in a system with severe restrictions, and highly limited usefulness.

The system needs to be fixed, not just land rates, but the usability of some of the spells.

You are on page 10, and have skipped right over pages 1-9. RDM is still presently the best enfeebler, it doesn't need any tools to define it as such (having access to the best enfeebles in the game from both schools speaks to that).

The system is broken, and until it is fixed via spells landing, mobs TP spam lowered (be it enfeebles like para affecting them or an adjustment to TP mechanics) and until the binary (on/off) function of enfeebles is addressed (partial resists to duration and potency) nothing else added on to the end will make a damn bit difference.